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Thread: Hostile Makeover: The Man Who Hijacked Masters of the Universe

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGurlea View Post
    I am really surprised that I don't see anyone on here talking about the debate last night that happened between Michael French of Retroblasting and Scott Neitlich on YouTube. Unless I missed the thread. I looked around for one and did not see it.
    Didn't get any alerts so I didn't know. Not likely to watch it anyway tbh. Cringey people being extra cringey is something I struggle with!

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGurlea View Post
    I am really surprised that I don't see anyone on here talking about the debate last night that happened between Michael French of Retroblasting and Scott Neitlich on YouTube. Unless I missed the thread. I looked around for one and did not see it.
    What is there to discuss? It’s a debate about the toy industry between someone who has no experience within said industry and someone who used to. The whole thing had a real “and yet you participate in society, curious” vibe about it from the get-go. Just cringey af.

    The aftershow with YHS and Mad Hatter was pretty great, though.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGurlea View Post
    I am really surprised that I don't see anyone on here talking about the debate last night that happened between Michael French of Retroblasting and Scott Neitlich on YouTube. Unless I missed the thread. I looked around for one and did not see it.
    I skipped forward 30 min or so after they got their technical difficulties fixed, watched a couple min and it felt like an episode of Scared Straight where instead of making sure teens are scared about going to jail and so they behave but instead they are making sure teens never want to work in the toy industry or collect anything ever haha.

    It was… hard to watch so I stopped.
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  4. #154
    Heroic Warrior herbie747's Avatar
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    I watched the first 30 mins and it was mostly Scott's technical difficulties.

    So the highlight during this was when LioConvoy tried to highjack the chat and troll people but got kicked out. He really does crave attention.

  5. #155
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbie747 View Post
    I watched the first 30 mins and it was mostly Scott's technical difficulties.

    So the highlight during this was when LioConvoy tried to highjack the chat and troll people but got kicked out. He really does crave attention.
    Did he really? I listened to it at work today, so I didn't get to see the actual chat.

    The whole thing reminded me how I'd like to have actual, civil conversations with people about things I am interested in, but it's nearly impossible to do that these days unless you do it live and in person/via zoom or something like that. People draw a line in the sand, won't budge, and start attacking.

  6. #156
    Heroic Warrior herbie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    Did he really? I listened to it at work today, so I didn't get to see the actual chat.

    The whole thing reminded me how I'd like to have actual, civil conversations with people about things I am interested in, but it's nearly impossible to do that these days unless you do it live and in person/via zoom or something like that. People draw a line in the sand, won't budge, and start attacking.
    Yeah the chat was moving very fast but I just kept seeing his name appearing with people arguing with him and asking the moderator to boot him, then he was gone. Not sure what the arguments were about but it seemed he was annoying a bunch of people. I'm sure it's there on the replay.

  7. #157
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbie747 View Post
    Yeah the chat was moving very fast but I just kept seeing his name appearing with people arguing with him and asking the moderator to boot him, then he was gone. Not sure what the arguments were about but it seemed he was annoying a bunch of people. I'm sure it's there on the replay.
    I might take a scroll through, just to see. I did watch that video Lio posted. Honestly he reminds me of Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver. There's this famous quote from the movie:

    Someday a real rain will come and wipe this scum off the streets.

    Replace streets with toy aisles and I think that's his opinion of things.

    Then the famous part "You talkin' to me?" and Lio was basically threatening to fight anyone who would come at him. Do you know who you're talking to kind of sentiment.

  8. #158
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbie747 View Post
    I watched the first 30 mins and it was mostly Scott's technical difficulties.

    So the highlight during this was when LioConvoy tried to highjack the chat and troll people but got kicked out. He really does crave attention.
    The technical difficulties were forgivable and plenty of shows have issues. Veebs from the Fwoosh for instance has technical difficulties with lagging or dropped connections so often you'd think the guy was dialing in via a 56k connection. What wasn't forgivable was Michael French's overtly hostile attitude. I feel that guy needs to seek counseling or get medicated because his disgruntled attitude is poisonous and worse still because he has a channel, followers and thereby influence w/in this hobby. Obviously every collector who watches his content is free to have their own opinion, but we are susceptible creatures and his vitriolic snarling isn't helping anything. On the flip side, Scott didn't help things by seeming to flail and flag under the weight of Michael's faulty from the get-go questions... even simple ones made him stammer and seem unsure. Michael's stance seems to be, this is how I see it and because I have my lifetime's worth of collecting experience I know more than you do. Even though Scott actually worked in the toy industry and although he may not currently his experience can still be applied and scaled up/down according to the degree of project being discussed, cost inflation, etc. Michael kept pointing out how Scott's experience was X number of years ago, but then goes straight to his years of experience working directly with the CEO of UPS as his credentials. You can't have it both ways, buddy.

    Regardless, I will say the discussion did not move the needle in any (I repeat ANY) significant direction. They both had their say even with Scott's TD's and although Michael came across as having woken up on the wrong side of the bed, they had their hour to fret upon the stage. If that was the point of this 138 minutes I'll never get back then mission accomplished.
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  9. #159
    Heroic Warrior BergerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    The technical difficulties were forgivable and plenty of shows have issues. Veebs from the Fwoosh for instance has technical difficulties with lagging or dropped connections so often you'd think the guy was dialing in via a 56k connection. What wasn't forgivable was Michael French's overtly hostile attitude. I feel that guy needs to seek counseling or get medicated because his disgruntled attitude is poisonous and worse still because he has a channel, followers and thereby influence w/in this hobby. Obviously every collector who watches his content is free to have their own opinion, but we are susceptible creatures and his vitriolic snarling isn't helping anything. On the flip side, Scott didn't help things by seeming to flail and flag under the weight of Michael's faulty from the get-go questions... even simple ones made him stammer and seem unsure. Michael's stance seems to be, this is how I see it and because I have my lifetime's worth of collecting experience I know more than you do. Even though Scott actually worked in the toy industry and although he may not currently his experience can still be applied and scaled up/down according to the degree of project being discussed, cost inflation, etc. Michael kept pointing out how Scott's experience was X number of years ago, but then goes straight to his years of experience working directly with the CEO of UPS as his credentials. You can't have it both ways, buddy.

    Regardless, I will say the discussion did not move the needle in any (I repeat ANY) significant direction. They both had their say even with Scott's TD's and although Michael came across as having woken up on the wrong side of the bed, they had their hour to fret upon the stage. If that was the point of this 138 minutes I'll never get back then mission accomplished.
    Fair points. I see a lot of people saying they felt like it was a waste of time/etc - but I personally was enthralled by it. Maybe the bar is just that low for me haha

    I wrote the following in reply to a comment on youtube (i know, huge mistake) talking about how Michael "won" the debate. Since it may not get much traction over there, I figured I'd copy/paste it here if anyone wants to read it. Be warned, I wrote entirely too much about this lol

    the post:

    In the interest of a spirited debate let me present a counterpoint. I’m not familiar with Michael before seeing his video about Scott. Jay and John say that he is a standup guy, and I trust their judgment.

    I am, however, very familiar with Scott. I collected Masters of the Universe Classics since the first figure in the line, all the way till the end. So I’ve been aware of Scott Neitlich for many years. I am not a fan of Scott. I think that he has a goofy, juvenile, somewhat sexist sense of humor. And I just do not like his personality. He’s been touting this claim that Mattel is going to “lose“ masters of the universe in 2023, because they apparently sold the rights to universal a number of years back. No one can corroborate this. There’s no news articles, no evidence at all that this is going to happen. I think it is a mix of misremembering things from his time on the line being more than five years ago, and possibly bad information. His MotU directors commentaries are interesting. His other content… he definitely gives off an air of arrogance that irks me.

    All that being said, if we have to pick a “winner“? I pick Scott. I think that the whole thing about opinion versus facts is a matter of semantics and incorrect terminology (and went on too long). Shockwave 75 spoke above about opinion>informed opinion>fact. In my opinion Scott’s experience in the industry would, I think, qualify him as an expert in his field. He is more than qualified to accurately speculate (key word here - speculate) about the goings-on in the industry. I’m sorry but being a “lifelong toy collector” is a horrible qualification to bring to the table. That means basically nothing. If Michael worked at Toys “R” Us for a number of years, as I believe someone mentioned above, then he needs to use that as experience in the toy industry to defend his claims, even if it was on the retail side of things rather than the manufacturer/distributor side of things. But he didn’t, all he said to defend his statement of fact and his point of view, was that he was a lifelong toy collector.

    While not being toy related, I have over a decade of experience in electronics retail, from computers to cell phones, so I know that a lot of what Scott says about the supply chain, shelf space and whatnot tracks from my experience in retail sales.

    Both were amazingly well prepared, when they both started talking about particular videos and quotes from timestamps, I was amazed. I never would have thought to do that. And I think Craig/Yes Have Some said the same thing. Scott came off as more professional, more gracious, and he was more well spoken with better arguments. Michael had weak claims, asked more questions than he answered, and his body language and posture seemed like that of someone who was just annoyed to be there - how many times did he shrug and say “ok, sure”?

    So, in summary, if we have to pick a winner - despite not really being terribly fond of the guy, I think Scott “won”. But you know… that’s just like, my opinion, man. /Lebowski.
    Last edited by BergerKing; September 27, 2021 at 08:03pm.
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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGurlea View Post
    I am really surprised that I don't see anyone on here talking about the debate last night that happened between Michael French of Retroblasting and Scott Neitlich on YouTube. Unless I missed the thread. I looked around for one and did not see it.
    I tried to watch it but Scott's internet difficulties kind of killed it. I decided eventually to just wait till today and watch it.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbie747 View Post
    So the highlight during this was when LioConvoy tried to highjack the chat and troll people but got kicked out. He really does crave attention.
    I wished I had stayed longer to see that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    What wasn't forgivable was Michael French's overtly hostile attitude. I feel that guy needs to seek counseling or get medicated because his disgruntled attitude is poisonous and worse still because he has a channel, followers and thereby influence w/in this hobby.
    I've said this for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    Michael's stance seems to be, this is how I see it and because I have my lifetime's worth of collecting experience I know more than you do.
    Yeah. The "debate" was what I expected. Michael cried and provided little to no actual facts and just stated his jaded opinion "as a collector for years" while Scott did provide facts. Michael's defense that Scott hasn't worked in the industry for years or that it was somehow outdated was pathetic. When Scott would provide info and facts to refute any so-called points Michael was making, Michael's response was always something like "I guess so" or "fair enough" to try to end that point of discussion and move on to something else cause he knew Scott was right and he was wrong.

    In the end Michael looked like a spoiled brat who wasn't getting his way while Scott acted like a professional but sometimes went off on tangents. Overall IMO Scott came out looking the same, you can debate if that's good or bad, while Michael just made himself look like an even bigger fool.

  11. #161
    Lord of Darkkbricks Darkkosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post


    Yeah. The "debate" was what I expected. Michael cried and provided little to no actual facts and just stated his jaded opinion "as a collector for years" while Scott did provide facts. Michael's defense that Scott hasn't worked in the industry for years or that it was somehow outdated was pathetic. When Scott would provide info and facts to refute any so-called points Michael was making, Michael's response was always something like "I guess so" or "fair enough" to try to end that point of discussion and move on to something else cause he knew Scott was right and he was wrong.
    Were those facts that Scott provided in that debate similar to the ones that Mattel have refuted and denied themselves at Power-Con?!

    Scott says a lot of things, but many including who work in the toy industry also disagree with him. Also his info about the collector market is somehow inaccurate or/and outdated! He literary says in that debate that toy collectors to the toy companies are nothing, they're less than 1%... And most of the toys were catered to toddlers and their parents!

    Adult collector market isn't just action figures, it's building toys, it's puzzle and games, it's RC, it's board games it's die cast and so on!
    Yes the toddler market has a good chunk, but it's not exactly how he represented it! I know for a fact that a big percentage of people who buy LEGO sets for example are actually collectors and adult collectors, that's also why LEGO and other toy companies catered lines for collectors and adults alone!

    If you look at this link for example, here are some US numbers in the billions to get an idea of the toy categories and how much they sell:
    https://www.toyassociation.org/ta/re...ales-data.aspx
    In 2020 for example, toddler was about $3.27 billion, action figures was about $1.66 billion, building sets were $2.29 billion, games and puzzles were $2.93 billion and so forth...

    And BTW, I don't know much about Michael's toy industry info or much about his online persona, but I've watched the debate, and what Scott was saying is also sometimes questionable and you guys probably need to take it with a grain of salt... Maybe Scott means well, and is looking for a name for himself in the toy business again, but that's not exactly how you do it by exploring and exploiting it with big claims and egotistical manner IMHO!
    Since Scott showed up, I've witnessed a lot of divisions in the toy community, specifically here!

    I wish both parties well, and hopefully they'd get things sorted out in the end.
    Last edited by Darkkosis; September 28, 2021 at 01:30am.
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  12. #162
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    I think one of the craziest things was both them had their receipts printed and ready to go. I mean preparing for a debate usually entails that but in this one, it came across weird. Almost like evidence in a court case.

    In your August 5 2020 video on Giftgivers Shopping at 12:38 you said this......

    On your February 23 2017 post on HeMan.Org you said......

    I mean it was great they went to these lengths but just came off sounding weird and obsessive.

    I’m not slighting Scott’s work experience or Michael’s “field work in the trenches” it was great they both had such opposite POVs such as corporate toy maker and consumer. The toy industry has drastically changed in just the past year along with everything else in the world. Just months ago, it was slim pickings and many wasted trips hunting for stuff like Origins or the new GI Joes while Transformers, Marvel Legends and McFarlane DC seemed unfazed. Now it’s changed for them too. There’s A LOT of new collectors I run across in my travels. Some just jumped in since Revelations and had no idea Classics even existed. They have no idea how any of this works so if they find people online giving misinformation or are just negative about everything, they’ll quit and whatever fandom is involved, loses overall. So the debate did have some importance but honestly I don’t see them changing aside from them taking swipes at each other.
    Last edited by hlinhk128; September 28, 2021 at 01:18am.
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man-Man View Post
    "What is there to discuss? It’s a debate about the toy industry between someone who has no experience within said industry and someone who used to..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    "...Michael's stance seems to be, this is how I see it and because I have my lifetime's worth of collecting experience I know more than you do. Even though Scott actually worked in the toy industry and although he may not currently his experience can still be applied and scaled up/down according to the degree of project being discussed, cost inflation, etc. Michael kept pointing out how Scott's experience was X number of years ago, but then goes straight to his years of experience working directly with the CEO of UPS as his credentials. You can't have it both ways, buddy..."
    Quote Originally Posted by BergerKing View Post
    "...All that being said, if we have to pick a “winner“? I pick Scott. I think that the whole thing about opinion versus facts is a matter of semantics and incorrect terminology (and went on too long). Shockwave 75 spoke above about opinion>informed opinion>fact. In my opinion Scott’s experience in the industry would, I think, qualify him as an expert in his field. He is more than qualified to accurately speculate (key word here - speculate) about the goings-on in the industry. I’m sorry but being a “lifelong toy collector” is a horrible qualification to bring to the table. That means basically nothing. If Michael worked at Toys “R” Us for a number of years, as I believe someone mentioned above, then he needs to use that as experience in the toy industry to defend his claims, even if it was on the retail side of things rather than the manufacturer/distributor side of things. But he didn’t, all he said to defend his statement of fact and his point of view, was that he was a lifelong toy collector...


    ...Scott came off as more professional, more gracious, and he was more well spoken with better arguments. Michael had weak claims, asked more questions than he answered, and his body language and posture seemed like that of someone who was just annoyed to be there - how many times did he shrug and say “ok, sure”?..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    "...Yeah. The "debate" was what I expected. Michael cried and provided little to no actual facts and just stated his jaded opinion "as a collector for years" while Scott did provide facts. Michael's defense that Scott hasn't worked in the industry for years or that it was somehow outdated was pathetic. When Scott would provide info and facts to refute any so-called points Michael was making, Michael's response was always something like "I guess so" or "fair enough" to try to end that point of discussion and move on to something else cause he knew Scott was right and he was wrong.

    In the end Michael looked like a spoiled brat who wasn't getting his way while Scott acted like a professional but sometimes went off on tangents. Overall IMO Scott came out looking the same, you can debate if that's good or bad, while Michael just made himself look like an even bigger fool."
    I agree with all of the above. I am glad that there are many people here who get it and understand how real life works. French reminded me of many posters who post on other toy forums. Especially Hiss Tank. I don't get this bizarre wrong idea that some people have that unless you currently work at a toy company TODAY as CEO and are divulging the company secrets then "you don't know jack!" French seemed to have this same idea and came across as foolish and stupid when confronted with an actual person who has experience in the toy industry. This is the same thing that would happen to the posters on Hiss Tank if they ever tried to talk to Bobby Vala.

    Like it or not, but if your only experience in the toy industry is going to Target and buying some toys and taking them home and playing with them you don't have any experience in the toy industry and your opinion means nothing. Absolutely nothing. People like Bobby Vala and Scott Neitlich have education, training, and experience in the toy industry making toys and their opinions carry weight. As stated above, they could be deemed "experts" when it comes to toys and could spout opinions as fact. This childish and ignorant idea that some toy collectors have that just because they personally don't like Vala or Neitlich so their resumes mean nothing and they know better and their opinion is just as good or better as a lifelong toy collector just exposes how stupid people are that espouse that. French here was a perfect example. After they got past the first part about why French's opinion means nothing compared to Neitlich's the rest of the time just showed why and showed how Neitlich is an expert and French really knows nothing. Which was to be expected because Neitlich worked there and French did not.

    I'm also not saying that you have to like Vala or Neitlich or even agree with what they say. Some just need to drop this bizarre sad idea that they know more than them and WWAAAAHHHHHAAAA! their opinion should matter too. Because all that will happen in the end is that these people will only be able to sit there with a dumb angry look on their faces and be able to only muster up, "OK," after either Vala or Neitlich drops years of knowledge on them about how things really worked at a toy company.

    P.S. I even share much of French's frustration too. I could see myself in him when he stated a lot of things he doesn't like about the toy industry. But I think I would have a totally different approach. Instead of a debate and trying to blame some toy industry person I would love to sit down with both Vala and Neitlich and have more of a roundtable discussion and ask probing questions and try to get them to explain certain issues. Say like explain the distribution problems things more or why can't just certain lines be DTC and not in stores. Like really try to get them to clarify things with follow-up questions. The bottom line with me too is that like these guys or hate them, as far as I know they are the only two people in the world talking about how things work in the toy industry who actually worked there. No one else is.

  14. #164
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    Michael is very very very vocal on his hate for Hasbro and their practices. Popular theory is the design team on Legends modelled the figure after him which it does sort of resemble him. The memes with this character are hilarious.
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  15. #165
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BergerKing View Post
    the post:

    In the interest of a spirited debate let me present a counterpoint. I’m not familiar with Michael before seeing his video about Scott. Jay and John say that he is a standup guy, and I trust their judgment.

    I am, however, very familiar with Scott. I collected Masters of the Universe Classics since the first figure in the line, all the way till the end. So I’ve been aware of Scott Neitlich for many years. I am not a fan of Scott. I think that he has a goofy, juvenile, somewhat sexist sense of humor. And I just do not like his personality. He’s been touting this claim that Mattel is going to “lose“ masters of the universe in 2023, because they apparently sold the rights to universal a number of years back. No one can corroborate this. There’s no news articles, no evidence at all that this is going to happen. I think it is a mix of misremembering things from his time on the line being more than five years ago, and possibly bad information. His MotU directors commentaries are interesting. His other content… he definitely gives off an air of arrogance that irks me.

    All that being said, if we have to pick a “winner“? I pick Scott. I think that the whole thing about opinion versus facts is a matter of semantics and incorrect terminology (and went on too long). Shockwave 75 spoke above about opinion>informed opinion>fact. In my opinion Scott’s experience in the industry would, I think, qualify him as an expert in his field. He is more than qualified to accurately speculate (key word here - speculate) about the goings-on in the industry. I’m sorry but being a “lifelong toy collector” is a horrible qualification to bring to the table. That means basically nothing. If Michael worked at Toys “R” Us for a number of years, as I believe someone mentioned above, then he needs to use that as experience in the toy industry to defend his claims, even if it was on the retail side of things rather than the manufacturer/distributor side of things. But he didn’t, all he said to defend his statement of fact and his point of view, was that he was a lifelong toy collector.

    While not being toy related, I have over a decade of experience in electronics retail, from computers to cell phones, so I know that a lot of what Scott says about the supply chain, shelf space and whatnot tracks from my experience in retail sales.

    Both were amazingly well prepared, when they both started talking about particular videos and quotes from timestamps, I was amazed. I never would have thought to do that. And I think Craig/Yes Have Some said the same thing. Scott came off as more professional, more gracious, and he was more well spoken with better arguments. Michael had weak claims, asked more questions than he answered, and his body language and posture seemed like that of someone who was just annoyed to be there - how many times did he shrug and say “ok, sure”?

    So, in summary, if we have to pick a winner - despite not really being terribly fond of the guy, I think Scott “won”. But you know… that’s just like, my opinion, man. /Lebowski.
    This is a great write up and I appreciate you posting it here as I wouldn't have seen it otherwise. FWIW it sounds like we both agree re: the true "winner" of the debate. Michael definitely came into the ring with the weakest game when he leaned on and into his lifelong toy collector argument. In fact I think I literally rolled my eyes when he said that. Then when he kept shutting Scott down when he was attempting to share his industry experience as applicable to other toy lines and companies, as having been too long ago and not applicable because he never worked for Hasbro... I just couldn't any more. He comes across as an elitist bully. The kind who, if you didn't have the right toys to bring to the friendship circle as children he would boot you w/out a second thought. Or the kind who silently or even openly judges people for any host of reasons. It's his affect and demeanor coming into this debate and frankly with most of his videos that only added further layers to why I couldn't buy into anything he said. Then (and I'll end here) when Michael started throwing chairs (metaphorically speaking) at the chat for saying it was turning into a Retroblasting segment, I was done with him. He's angry for whatever reason and as I stated earlier, he really should look into therapy, possibly a massage and maybe some time away from the hobby before he blows a gasket.
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  16. #166
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkkosis View Post
    Scott says a lot of things, but many including who work in the toy industry also disagree with him. Also his info about the collector market is somehow inaccurate or/and outdated! He literary says in that debate that toy collectors to the toy companies are nothing, they're less than 1%... And most of the toys were catered to toddlers and their parents!
    This quote bothered me as well when he said it. Scott often says that the split is 80% to 20%, kids to adult collectors. Doesn't he? Am I interpreting this wrong?

    Also, he often uses phrases like adults don't matter, we are nothing. If he actually wanted to foster a better relationship with collectors and to ease the tensions like he says he does, he'd do well to work on how he says things. He very often says things in a very inflammatory manner to an audience he freely admits is prone to being inflamed. Example, titling that video, "Let me tell you how you're wrong." That is not a neutral, good faith, kumbaya title. Scott has ulterior motives. I'm not the only person who feels this way. He's been fostering division in the community for over a decade. Just go back and look.

    Plus just something that bothers me about his debate style, you ask him a question and he has to prove how smart he is by going into a 3 minute monologue "First let me tell you about the history of asking questions. It dates back to Babylonia..." He did this over and over and over...

    I must clarify - my statement that he has ulterior motives is an opinion. My statement that others feel this way is a fact.

    PLUS - that statement that toy collectors are nothing to toy companies isn't even true. If we didn't matter there wouldn't be collector focused toy lines. He presents it as a fact when it's clearly not a fact. It probably is true that if you count up all the toys sold in the world that adults make up a small percentage. That without sales to children (and their parents etc) the toy industry would collapse as a whole. But companies like Hot Toys and Super7 and Funko would still be around. They make a profit and the adult collectors very much mean something to these companies. Add to that, if we're worth nothing to the toy companies, they wouldn't make toys for us at all. Companies don't invest resources into something that they don't think will benefit them in some way. Now for a company like Mattel the adult market doesn't benefit them as much as the kid market does, BUT it does benefit them or else they wouldn't do it.

    So Scott doesn't have this monopoly on facts that he pretends he does.

    And before anyone says I'm defending Michael - I'm not. I'm talking about my problems with Scott. I have problems with Michael too (especially throwing Val and Dan under the bus - that was really, really out of line, very hostile, and promotes this you are either with us or against us mentality that I can't stand). But it seems like everyone is dogpiling on Michael and I don't think I need to mention the same complaints everyone else is mentioning.

  17. #167
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    I think Scott sometimes speaks in hyperbole, which ends up hurting him.

    Adult collectors are certainly not nothing, but they are definitely significantly LESS important than kids/parents.

    Also worth noting that he worked for Mattel, which seems to have much less of a adult collector focus than other companies.

  18. #168
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    Michael kept pointing out how Scott's experience was X number of years ago, but then goes straight to his years of experience working directly with the CEO of UPS as his credentials. You can't have it both ways, buddy.
    Incidentally, French has stated on his channel that his father was an executive for UPS, and that his family moved to Georgia in the '90s, coinciding with UPS relocating its headquarters to Sandy Springs in 1991.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoffman View Post
    I think Scott sometimes speaks in hyperbole, which ends up hurting him.

    Adult collectors are certainly not nothing, but they are definitely significantly LESS important than kids/parents.

    Also worth noting that he worked for Mattel, which seems to have much less of a adult collector focus than other companies.
    Agreed, especially when the backbone of your argument is that you are the one with the facts.

  20. #170
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    Incidentally, French has stated on his channel that his father was an executive for UPS, and that his family moved to Georgia in the '90s, coinciding with UPS relocating its headquarters to Sandy Springs in 1991.
    Call me obtuse, but are you implying nepotism? If so that's fine, but I don't see how that bears on the discussion. Michael's father "juicing him in" at UPS is perfectly fine with me. But he shouldn't have mentioned his time with UPS at all because it actually gave Scott's argument more weight. In other words if Michael had started into a diatribe about shipping business practices in general and not just UPS no one would smack him down and say you worked for them how many years ago... and you didn't work for FEDEX even though you were talking about business practices at FEDEX? It's a silly argument to make as anyone would consider Scott or Michael pseudo-experts in their given field simply by their years of experience and proximity to those industries.
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  21. #171
    Heroic Warrior Cringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BergerKing View Post

    In the interest of a spirited debate let me present a counterpoint. I’m not familiar with Michael before seeing his video about Scott. Jay and John say that he is a standup guy, and I trust their judgment.

    I am, however, very familiar with Scott. I collected Masters of the Universe Classics since the first figure in the line, all the way till the end. So I’ve been aware of Scott Neitlich for many years. I am not a fan of Scott. I think that he has a goofy, juvenile, somewhat sexist sense of humor. And I just do not like his personality. He’s been touting this claim that Mattel is going to “lose“ masters of the universe in 2023, because they apparently sold the rights to universal a number of years back. No one can corroborate this. There’s no news articles, no evidence at all that this is going to happen. I think it is a mix of misremembering things from his time on the line being more than five years ago, and possibly bad information. His MotU directors commentaries are interesting. His other content… he definitely gives off an air of arrogance that irks me.

    All that being said, if we have to pick a “winner“? I pick Scott. I think that the whole thing about opinion versus facts is a matter of semantics and incorrect terminology (and went on too long). Shockwave 75 spoke above about opinion>informed opinion>fact. In my opinion Scott’s experience in the industry would, I think, qualify him as an expert in his field. He is more than qualified to accurately speculate (key word here - speculate) about the goings-on in the industry. I’m sorry but being a “lifelong toy collector” is a horrible qualification to bring to the table. That means basically nothing. If Michael worked at Toys “R” Us for a number of years, as I believe someone mentioned above, then he needs to use that as experience in the toy industry to defend his claims, even if it was on the retail side of things rather than the manufacturer/distributor side of things. But he didn’t, all he said to defend his statement of fact and his point of view, was that he was a lifelong toy collector.

    While not being toy related, I have over a decade of experience in electronics retail, from computers to cell phones, so I know that a lot of what Scott says about the supply chain, shelf space and whatnot tracks from my experience in retail sales.

    Both were amazingly well prepared, when they both started talking about particular videos and quotes from timestamps, I was amazed. I never would have thought to do that. And I think Craig/Yes Have Some said the same thing. Scott came off as more professional, more gracious, and he was more well spoken with better arguments. Michael had weak claims, asked more questions than he answered, and his body language and posture seemed like that of someone who was just annoyed to be there - how many times did he shrug and say “ok, sure”?

    So, in summary, if we have to pick a winner - despite not really being terribly fond of the guy, I think Scott “won”. But you know… that’s just like, my opinion, man. /Lebowski.
    Pretty much agree with every single point you made here. I'm not a massive fan of Scott and would cite similar reasons to yourself. He often comes off as having social/political views that don't quite gel with my own. I find his channel quite interesting because of his experience and the information he brings to the table. I also appreciate the fact that, unlike Mr. French, he's capable of basic comprehension and construction of an argument. He also (more or less) lives in the real world, where toy collecting is just a hobby and not the sum-total of a person's existence.
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  22. #172
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    Just as an aside, and someone sitting in the UK for what difference that makes, 'experts' of any description are frequently wrong. While they should always be your first port of call they are still often outright wrong, as recent world events both good and bad have proven.

    I'm saying use your own brain and question the motives for what you hear instead of just assuming 'experts!' because that's easier. Experience and all the data in the world could still mean they're only using that selectively for their own agenda. I mean the politicians say hi lol.

    Applying the above to the 'debate' there was no real reason for Michael to do a hit piece on Scott, was there? I mean nothing anybody would consider more than perceived online butthurt. But it obviously suited him somehow, even if only ego.

    Some of what Scott claims in videos is so patently BS and contradictory it's hard to know where to start, but one minute he's claiming collectors are almost a problem to the likes of Mattel (and he implied that on here from what I gather), then doing a video on rather large operations like, er, BBTS and EE. And those are just the big two. There's any amount of e-tailers moving to much larger warehouses even in a relatively tiny country like the UK! Kids and gift givers don't know these sites exist. So patently the collector market is worth serious cash otherwise Mattel and Hasbro amongst others would only be dealing with Walmart etc with boilerplate stuff. Again, the obscure store exclusives say hi. So yeah, seems obvious to me he needs those video clicks whatever the verifiable evidence!

    Agendas. It's best to look for them, even in toys! Some fans seem to swallow everything they're told either to justify their own purchases and behaviour or simply to pose online. Question stuff a bit more would be my general advice.

  23. #173
    Heroic Warrior FASAfan's Avatar
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    I have a lot of opinions about this debate and a lot of feelings. None of that, honestly, is worth much in the grand scheme of things.

    To distill those in their simplest form:

    I empathize greatly with Michael.

    Scott definitely double-downed on the corporate position and made it clear that toy companies do us no favors by offering what they do: it’s purely for profit and they only (maybe) respond when bad PR is a possibility ‘cause it would hurt the bottom line. Scott even admitted that the Classics storyline was written to help support the line, thus sales. There’s no darn soul in anything. From a logical point of view, this is what a bean counter would do.

    It’d be nice to think that small favors and bones were thrown to us collectors, but this is fantasy. The toy companies aren’t obligated to do so and we shouldn’t expect it. Ok. Accepted.

    But, as others have noted, this whole thing makes me want to wash my hands of adult toy collecting - especially modern stuff.

    PS

    I give them both props for agreeing to the debate. I’m sure they had other things they could do and the prep alone surely took up a lot of their time. Big kudos to Scott for trying his best to get a steady connection when he was having connectivity issues. He could have easily thrown in the towel, but he stood by his commitment.
    Last edited by FASAfan; September 28, 2021 at 02:44pm.

  24. #174
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    Retroblasting is angry.

    What are you qualifications sir?

    "I AM A LIFELONG TOY COLLECTOR!"


    LOL!!

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarePlow View Post
    What are you qualifications sir?

    "I AM A LIFELONG TOY COLLECTOR!"


    LOL!!
    So, what? “Don’t believe your lying eyes?”

    No matter the reason (Scott’s position/s), the results we can all see at retail (Michael’s position).

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