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Thread: Hostile Makeover: The Man Who Hijacked Masters of the Universe

  1. #26
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    The Palace Guards came out in ~2011, what weird timing to be mad about them now. And they were a stand-alone release, so it's not like a subber can get mad for being stuck with them.

    And Mighty Spector was part of a mini-sub, so again, not something a collector would unknowingly get stuck with. And still around 10 years old now.

    As far as the bios and mini-comics, it's easy enough to ignore the story if someone wasn't into it. Those existing doesn't change the story of the originals.
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  2. #27
    Evil Warrior Soulfly's Avatar
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    Going to agree about most of what was said about the target of the video. Not sure why he dragged other people into the video, but at least the stuff about spector, etc, was spot on. Val has no reason to rock the boat with Mattel, since it took years to get them on board again. So, I wouldn't blame him in any of that in the slightest. Again, just seems weird to throw him into the beat down video.

  3. #28
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    Sometime ago I watched all the way through one of RB's videos on some other subject (don't remember what now) but the longer it went on the more crazy and unhinged he seemed to get over toys. I decided at that point I'd avoid his stuff but I'd forget and click something and the same pattern would begin again and I'd just back-click out of it. I've finally gotten to the point where I remember not to click through. I don't block the channel because I have a morbid curiosity as to what he's going to go off on next. I just question if he's serious or if he's just doing this stuff for clicks.
    My friend told me to stop quoting the Monkees. I thought she was joking. But then I saw her face.

  4. #29
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdHaskel View Post
    Here's how it started:

    Retroblasting did a video on how Hasbro shouldn't be doing crowed sourced products (HasLab) and just release them to retail.

    Toyguru then made a video called "Let me tell you why you're wrong" offering a fact filled response as to why Hasbro can't do these projects for retail using his knowledge as someone in the industry.

    Then Retroblasting did the hit piece video on Toyguru, because he was butt-hurt.


    I'm not a huge fan of Scott's, but the Retroblasting video came off as petty...
    I never heard of the retroblasting dude until this week and judging by this video and other I am kinda glad I haven't.

    I am not a defender of Scott but man this video comes off as super bitter and angry. And then he randomly attacks Pixel Dan for not taking Mattel to task in a video? Well yeah, you don't really want to turn an interiew into a GOTCHA piece and still expect to interview people in the toy industry. It doesn't seem like the guy gets interview with people from the toy industry (I haven't see all his video so maybe I am wrong) so maybe he is just jealous which is how it comes off.

    He has a couple points that I could maybe agree with but that he then stretches out to 37 excruciating minutes then fills with so much falsehoods (Keldor isn't a scott creation, it is from the original minicomic and plans for that) and angry venom.

    Judging by skimming through some of his other videos he seems very misinformed about the industry and is just an angry dude with a camera and a youtube account.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lich Leech View Post
    That's too bad. I remember watching the Retroblasting 2013 "He-Man Tours Snake Mountain" video with my son, and it was a blast. Not digging the descent into angry fan rant/personal attack stuff.
    that what half the youtubers seem to be since negativity gets clicks. Does this dude even like toys? He doesn't seem to get much joy according to his videos but knows exactly what is best for every facet of the industry.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nickdoobs View Post
    Imagine being on the toy aisle and hearing a kid throwing a temper tantrum cause his mom wouldn't buy him what he wanted... for 37 minutes straight.
    hahaha ok, that made me snort laugh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasstor View Post
    Iím sorta taken aback and a little offended that these ********* think itís ok now to start blaming Val and Dan over Mattel stealing ideas? Scott is clearly full of himself but, when these people start throwing wild accusations at people that have no control over what Matty does, like they are some sort of power players that control the toy industry, Iím out. Iím so tired of uneducated people whose lives revolve around how many clicks they can get and how much hate and anger they can build up.

    Iím sorry I watched that video. I feel infected and dirty and like Iíll never be clean again.
    the bit against Val and Dan seemed out of nowhere mean and uncalled for and smacking a bit of jealousy.
    cogito ergo doleo

  5. #30
    In Stereo Where Available Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Back in August, RetroBlasting posted a pretty good video surrounding controversy with a maker of custom vintage-style Star Wars figures, and towards the end he goes on a good rant about how people in Facebook toy groups cling to conspiracy theories way too easily (for instance, they accuse Michael of RetroBlasting of being the maker of the figures but pretending not to be, when really he isn't at all and has only talked about them on his channel).

    Here is the link to that video. It is about an hour, but IMO worth a watch regardless of what anyone thinks of him in general. I think we've all seen examples of conspiracy theories going out of control when it comes to the hobby of toy collecting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GbfsEy_eQU


    I bring this up because while perhaps the people in those groups go a bit further into "tin foil hat" territory with how crazy they get, this recent video of his going on about Scott (and to a lesser extent Val, and Pixel Dan) goes pretty far into conspiracy theory territory itself.

    Did Scott make mistakes? Definately. Are some of the criticisms of him valid? Of course.

    But is he responsible for convincing Mattel management to NOT put lines at retail that would have sold well there in favor of the niche online MattyCollector model? No, that is absurd.
    Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; September 20, 2021 at 09:51pm.
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  6. #31
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    Whoa sheesh. I had to keep checking the date on the video to make sure it was current and not from 10 years ago. The Classics line was not a failure. I have the most robust MOTU collection I think we will ever have. If anything, it went on far longer than anyone thought possible as I sit here staring at my Granita figure. I thought it was amazing what he did for the line and the brand overall. Figures from every corner of the franchise created in that scale and in that buck was amazing and why not try and write a story to go along with it?

    I didnít see any mention of the new Netflix MOTUKids series though (which I love) but dang his head is really going to explode once he realizes Krass was the name Scott/Mattel gave to Ram Man on the MOTUC bio.

  7. #32
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    I watch the Spector Creative channel on YouTube and outside of always telling everyone every time he was the brand manager for Mattel and that Mattel is losing MOTU I like his channel. To me I see nothing wrong with trying to make the mini comics, cartoons and other media work as collective story.
    Also if I was him I too would have made my own figure.
    It seemed like an unnecessary video attacking toy guru

  8. #33
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eternia Burning View Post
    The Palace Guards came out in ~2011, what weird timing to be mad about them now. And they were a stand-alone release, so it's not like a subber can get mad for being stuck with them.

    And Mighty Spector was part of a mini-sub, so again, not something a collector would unknowingly get stuck with. And still around 10 years old now.

    As far as the bios and mini-comics, it's easy enough to ignore the story if someone wasn't into it. Those existing doesn't change the story of the originals.
    But that stuff worked it's way into MOTUR, and probably other things in the future too.

  9. #34
    Heroic Warrior cyberius704's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    Back in August, RetroBlasting posted a pretty good video surrounding controversy with a maker of custom vintage-style Star Wars figures, and towards the end he goes on a good rant about how people in Facebook to groups cling to conspiracy theories way to easily (for instance, the accuse Michael of RetroBlasting of being the maker of the figures but pretending not to be, when really he isn't at all and has only talked about them on his channel).

    Here is the link to that video. It is about an hour, but IMO worth a watch regardless of what anyone thinks of him in general. I think we've all seen examples of conspiracy theories going out of control when it comes to the hobby of toy collecting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GbfsEy_eQU


    I bring this up because while perhaps the people in those groups go a bit further into "tin foil hat" territory with how crazy they get, this recent video of his going on about Scott (and to a lesser extent Val, and Pixel Dan) goes pretty far into conspiracy theory territory itself.

    Did Scott make mistakes? Definately. Are some of the criticisms of him valid? Of course.

    But is he responsible for convincing Mattel management to NOT put lines at retail that would have sold well there in favor of the niche online MattyCollector model? No, that is absurd.
    I think this is the most on-target post in this thread. I've watched a lot of RB's videos over the years because there was always a genuine passion for vintage toys with warmth and humor - yes, humor - showing through. Pixel Dan even bumped into Michael in one of his toy hunting videos and gave the RB channel a plug. But I think all the frustrations with modern toy collecting, online conspiracies and who knows what else in Michael's life are taking their toll. For the past few years, the RB videos have been getting darker and more negative, while the fun retrospective videos have stopped. Now this one was just plain going too far. Having watched a lot of the RB videos, I think Michael is a genuinely good guy, but he seems to be going off the deep end.

  10. #35
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    The video is just nonsense, but Scott is also the victim of being passionate and vocal collector who engaged with the community. If nobody knew who Scott Neitlich was, nobody would bat an eye and the BRAND MANAGER for a toy line contributing the various things that people seem to take offense to Scott being involved with. It was literally his job.

    Some people get really mad about individuals they can put a face and name to contributing to something that they'll never get even remotely close to.

  11. #36
    Heroic Warrior AntiEternia He-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    Who cares about any of this?
    Purse swinging nerds.

  12. #37
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    I am, and remain a huge retroblasting fan. This video should have strayed from the personal attacks, but it does offer some very compelling points. Most notably, the way the theft by Scott and Mattel was handled by prominent members of the community: essentially bending over for the man. That is the most note worthy part of this video, imo.

    But yeah, even for me, being a huge fan of the site, I was like "dang, that's a bit harsh" at times. But again, the news is there, it's just crowded out but the rant.

  13. #38
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    Please define 'theft' in this scenario.

  14. #39
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholighkun View Post
    I am, and remain a huge retroblasting fan. This video should have strayed from the personal attacks, but it does offer some very compelling points. Most notably, the way the theft by Scott and Mattel was handled by prominent members of the community: essentially bending over for the man. That is the most note worthy part of this video, imo.

    But yeah, even for me, being a huge fan of the site, I was like "dang, that's a bit harsh" at times. But again, the news is there, it's just crowded out but the rant.
    What theft? Do you mean the whole copy cat/duplicat thing? Joe said he has been making for the past 10ish years?

    Ok, let's go into that. Looking at old threads right here on the org.

    Here is a thread with someone making a derivative version of a battlecat. 2006
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...!-Needs-a-Name

    Here is the first faker version of a battle cat I found. 2006
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...itty-Companion

    First use of the name Copy Cat 2007
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...1-Copy-Cat-wip

    Here is a faker cat thread and Joe even comments on it and says they should name it dopplecat because it is more of a doppleganger and someone else even mentions copy cat again. 2012
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...ttle-Cat-W-I-P

    Joe wasn't the first to create a faker cat but he probably was likely the one that popularized it.

    In the 200X comic they even did a faker variant cover
    Unknown.jpeg
    Last edited by King Kahn; September 20, 2021 at 09:51pm.
    cogito ergo doleo

  15. #40
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    You also can't really 'steal' designs that are derivative of your own work. By that logic, you could create any sort of fan concept and effectively lock a company out from doing something similar at any point in the future.

    If you're going to do fan art or fan concepts, you have to accept that the IP owner may LIKE your idea and use it in an official capacity.

  16. #41
    ‹ber Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    What theft? Do you mean the whole copy cat/duplicat thing? Joe said he has been making for the past 10ish years?

    Ok, let's go into that. Looking at old threads right here on the org.

    Here is a thread with someone making a derivative version of a battlecat. 2006
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...!-Needs-a-Name

    Here is the first faker version of a battle cat I found. 2006
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...itty-Companion

    First use of the name Copy Cat 2007
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...1-Copy-Cat-wip

    Here is a faker cat thread and Joe even comments on it and says they should name it dopplecat because it is more of a doppleganger and someone else even mentions copy cat again. 2012
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...ttle-Cat-W-I-P

    Joe wasn't the first to create a faker cat but he probably was likely the one that popularized it.

    In the 200X comic they even did a faker variant cover
    Unknown.jpeg
    It would appear that sonofblaine posted the first documented Battle Cat derivative on May 3rd 2006. It was designed to be a mount for Scare Glow, named Cat-Daver. About five months later on September 21st, Atragon posted the first documented Battle Cat derivative designed to be a mount for Faker.

    It would be almost six years before keller posted his Battle Cat derivative designed to be a mount for Faker on June 20th 2012. He described it as "Faker Battle Cat" before phnx75 suggested the name "Copy Cat." Interestingly, a day later, Joe Amato posted in the thread, and suggested the name "Doppel Cat," because it is a doppelgšnger of Battle Cat.

    This establishes that Joe Amato was aware of the preponderance of Battle Cat derivative customs before he started making them himself. Meaning that while the concept became associated with him, because he would later become a prolific customizer of these derivatives, it did not originate with him, and he in fact copied it from others.

    So this notion that he is "owed" some sort of recognition should be put to rest. He is preparing derivative works of an intellectual property that do not meet the minimum criteria of creativity to qualify as original, and he did not even come up with the idea himself.

  17. #42
    Heroic Warrior depp76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    Who cares about any of this?
    I concur lol.

  18. #43
    Heroic Warrior headache79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoffman View Post
    You also can't really 'steal' designs that are derivative of your own work. By that logic, you could create any sort of fan concept and effectively lock a company out from doing something similar at any point in the future.

    If you're going to do fan art or fan concepts, you have to accept that the IP owner may LIKE your idea and use it in an official capacity.
    While Mattel owns the original IP, they cannot just steal someone's ideas -- which is why they had to go to great lengths to get an updated release for Fearless Photog and why fans who created figures for the 30th anniversary had to sign really elaborate releases stating they were signing the concept over to Mattel. Whether creating those characters for a contest or not, Mattel does not automatically gain ownership of the character without that release/contract.

    If someone does a custom figure of an original character (even one that's derivative of Battle Cat) they could turn that character into their own thing and sell it. During the line's heyday in the 1980s Mattel bought certain concepts & characters from outside of Mattel development and paid people for various figures.

    I'm not taking a side as to who created Copy-Cat or if Mattel did or did not steal a concept, just a comment on how intellectual property laws would view something like Copy-Cat. It's why authors don't read fan-fiction about their own properties -- they could be accused of stealing ideas, characters, or plot-points and potentially be sued.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by headache79 View Post
    While Mattel owns the original IP, they cannot just steal someone's ideas -- which is why they had to go to great lengths to get an updated release for Fearless Photog and why fans who created figures for the 30th anniversary had to sign really elaborate releases stating they were signing the concept over to Mattel. Whether creating those characters for a contest or not, Mattel does not automatically gain ownership of the character without that release/contract.

    If someone does a custom figure of an original character (even one that's derivative of Battle Cat) they could turn that character into their own thing and sell it. During the line's heyday in the 1980s Mattel bought certain concepts & characters from outside of Mattel development and paid people for various figures.

    I'm not taking a side as to who created Copy-Cat or if Mattel did or did not steal a concept, just a comment on how intellectual property laws would view something like Copy-Cat. It's why authors don't read fan-fiction about their own properties -- they could be accused of stealing ideas, characters, or plot-points and potentially be sued.
    Those character designs weren't directly derivative of an existing MOTU character, most of them were completely original visual designs. But if you create an orange Batman and call it 'Bratman', you can't claim ownership of that. Especially if there is documented evidence of others creating similar fan-art in the past.

    I mean, if Mattel really cared enough, they could likely file a legal claim against Joe if he was selling product so directly derivative of Battle Cat (and Faker for that matter).

  20. #45
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    I usually enjoy the RetroBlasting channel... mostly because it covers vintage toys that I grew up with and goes into the politics of toy manufacturing/collecting in the current climate.

    Most of Michael's videos are very informative... some are hit or miss. This one has a good message, but he goes too far out on a tangent.

    I do agree with his thoughts about HasLab though... that is a huge corporate swindle.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoffman View Post
    Please define 'theft' in this scenario.
    I take it you didn't watch the video.

  22. #47
    ‹ber Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by headache79 View Post
    While Mattel owns the original IP, they cannot just steal someone's ideas -- which is why they had to go to great lengths to get an updated release for Fearless Photog and why fans who created figures for the 30th anniversary had to sign really elaborate releases stating they were signing the concept over to Mattel. Whether creating those characters for a contest or not, Mattel does not automatically gain ownership of the character without that release/contract.

    If someone does a custom figure of an original character (even one that's derivative of Battle Cat) they could turn that character into their own thing and sell it. During the line's heyday in the 1980s Mattel bought certain concepts & characters from outside of Mattel development and paid people for various figures.

    I'm not taking a side as to who created Copy-Cat or if Mattel did or did not steal a concept, just a comment on how intellectual property laws would view something like Copy-Cat. It's why authors don't read fan-fiction about their own properties -- they could be accused of stealing ideas, characters, or plot-points and potentially be sued.
    Fan-created characters are unauthorized derivative works of an existing intellectual property, which is copyright infringement. So not only can fans not monetize their creations, but if Mattel so chose, they could sue those fans into bankruptcy. Moreover, Mattel cannot "steal" something that does not legally belong to someone else. Fans do not have legal rights to their infringing works, so they cannot be stolen.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    What theft? Do you mean the whole copy cat/duplicat thing? Joe said he has been making for the past 10ish years?

    Ok, let's go into that. Looking at old threads right here on the org.

    Here is a thread with someone making a derivative version of a battlecat. 2006
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...!-Needs-a-Name

    Here is the first faker version of a battle cat I found. 2006
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...itty-Companion

    First use of the name Copy Cat 2007
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...1-Copy-Cat-wip

    Here is a faker cat thread and Joe even comments on it and says they should name it dopplecat because it is more of a doppleganger and someone else even mentions copy cat again. 2012
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...ttle-Cat-W-I-P

    Joe wasn't the first to create a faker cat but he probably was likely the one that popularized it.

    In the 200X comic they even did a faker variant cover
    Unknown.jpeg
    The video showed Joe's version, and the Mattel version, and it is clearly stolen. The damage is even in basically the same places. Plus they kept using Joe's name of Copy-cat.

    Plus you know, the whole Sky High thing.

    What theft he says.

  24. #49
    ‹ber Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholighkun View Post
    I take it you didn't watch the video.
    I take it you did not read this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    It would appear that sonofblaine posted the first documented Battle Cat derivative on May 3rd 2006. It was designed to be a mount for Scare Glow, named Cat-Daver. About five months later on September 21st, Atragon posted the first documented Battle Cat derivative designed to be a mount for Faker.

    It would be almost six years before keller posted his Battle Cat derivative designed to be a mount for Faker on June 20th 2012. He described it as "Faker Battle Cat" before phnx75 suggested the name "Copy Cat." Interestingly, a day later, Joe Amato posted in the thread, and suggested the name "Doppel Cat," because it is a doppelgšnger of Battle Cat.

    This establishes that Joe Amato was aware of the preponderance of Battle Cat derivative customs before he started making them himself. Meaning that while the concept became associated with him, because he would later become a prolific customizer of these derivatives, it did not originate with him, and he in fact copied it from others.

    So this notion that he is "owed" some sort of recognition should be put to rest. He is preparing derivative works of an intellectual property that do not meet the minimum criteria of creativity to qualify as original, and he did not even come up with the idea himself.

  25. #50
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    Also, the notion that Scott basically created a model that allowed other companies to swindle fans is worth mentioning. Again, yeah the video went too far into the personal attack zone in my opinion, but there is more than one topic worth mentioning.

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