Do you like Revelation so far?

[Medea]

I think having it while hiding it from public makes a lot of sense because it felt like there were at least some places where

1) there were campaigns from people to get as many dislikes as possible
2) there were media outlets turning this into stories "so and so is the video with the biggest like/dislike ratio!" or "so and so video has the fastest climbing number of dislikes in the first 24 hours"

Which to me will always encourage people to game the system as opposed to trying to be a reflection of people's natural reaction.

Having the button still there and the results being visible to the creators of the video still gives them feedback on how their thing is coming across without people turning it into a sport where they try to outdo each other with higher scores.

(for the record: I have a similar loathing for the "trending" thing on twitter, especially considering how easily it can be gamed and again how many people try to turn twitter trends into "news" stories)

That said, the more interesting question would be: what if you made the like numbers invisible as well? The platform could still consider them in their algorithms and show them off based on high number of likes. But there is no doubt people would do less liking if it wasn't visible and the platforms in the end selfishly do want engagement from the user.

[Rikki Roxx]

My problem with any kind of Like/Dislike system is that it eliminates any nuance and constructive criticism, since MOST Likes or Dislikes are not accompanied by any sort of clarifying comment. Most people just click and move on, feeling they've made their point. But that becomes a problem on the "dislike' side.

"Likes" aren't really a problem since if a person "Likes" something, we can assume that they're mostly okay with whatever it is. A "Dislike" without context, however, is trickier. "So WHAT exactly is the problem, here? The music, the sound, the editing, the visuals, the whole thing, the fact that I'm alive, what? WHAT is it that you don't like? Because if you don't tell me, I can't improve."

Not too many people watch my channel, but ever since the first time I posted anything (one of my matches, like forever ago now) I've generally gotten one Dislike on every video I've ever posted. I've always figured it's one of the guys I wrestle with being a wise guy - especially in the very beginning, literally nobody except my co-workers would watch my videos and there's a handful who never liked me and always went out of their way to be discouraging - but what annoys me is, it's pretty much empty "feedback". Because again, "WHAT don't you like?" Give me something I can work with, at least.

Since it's a pretty worthless system, even having a Dislike option is pointless. It doesn't so much "send a message" because you're not saying anything of substance. If a person who left a Dislike were required to leave a short feedback comment, that would at least be something of value, in theory. Without it, it's just potentially causing someone anxiety for no reason at all. By contrast, a Like without a comment does no "damage" so it's not really the same thing.

[Lokus]

The problem with constructive criticism comments is the You Tuber can choose to delete it .

[Fendi]

I don't want to sound personal but you sounds..... threatened.

[Medea]

The problem with constructive criticism comments is the You Tuber can choose to delete it .

Imagine this was a real-life situation. There is a store where you dislike what they are selling. So you write an angry pamphlet and post it on their storefront. Do you genuinely think they would not remove it?

Imagine you and your friends in real life had a habit of seeking out various stores, depending on whatever one of you brings up, standing in front of it and shouting as people who go in. Wouldn't that make you highly disagreeable and unpleasant people?

If a product is being sold that is a genuine problem, you can report it to the authorities or the platform holders.

So all we are talking about is situations where it is matters of taste, "crimes" against preference rather than genuine crimes that would warrant an actual court case or even just a violation of terms of service.

As we are talking about matters of taste, it begets that question what is the purpose of dislike then? If the point is feedback to the creator, there is legit arguments why it is a poor tool for this. (if the person in question deletes it doesn't change that they still saw it). If the point to warn people away from bad content?

Is that really being achieved here? People mostly see the dislike ratio only they have already clicked no the video, no? And isn't "number of like" still a pretty good metric? If there are likes in addition to dislikes that to me seems to suggest that some people do still like it, so youtube can't really know for sure that a person won't like it and hence they shouldn't show it to them. There is also the question whether review sites like yelp or imdb and yes even metacritic aren't a better way to provide recommendations to people on whether they will like a piece of content that they are considering.

Picture youtube as the owner of an apartment house. Each apartment houses a little store (the content creators/providers). The landlord takes a cut from every sale.

Now picture a world where groups of people for "sport" made a game out of getting together in groups, targetting a store to show up and shout down about how much they hate the store. Not for anything like an actual violation or illegal activity but just for "crimes against personal taste". Is it really that out of the ordinary that the landlord would come to see that as not the greatest thing to happen? Like maybe originally they didn't mind becuse the people coming to yell were still hanging out in the larger mall complex, but on the other hand there is nothing legally wrong with the product itself and other people are still enjoying the product.

(one of the people who commented on this was Rebecca Black of "Friday" fame. And ask you, do you in retrospect think that the ire against her (which apparently did not stay online and bled over into real life harassment) made sense. For what? making a bad song? Tons of people make up bad songs every day in every corner of the world. Did it really make sense to single her out? The song became famous of being bad and a lot of people who would never have learned of it were specifically directed to watch it just so they could experience something that is bad. [and if you say that you can enjoy something bad ironically => in that case should you like "dislike" it? it it gave you ironic enjoyment? Seems to me like that dislike also doesn't really contribute much to communicating this particular situation)

Which brings us to the next approach, the point of the counter is for people to feel kinship in their dislike. And here in addition to questioning the various of genuinely negative group dynamics that arise from it is the question whether this couldn't also and maybe even be better served by things like message boards.

So what's left then? People acting like hitting the dislike button on some social media platform is some sort of great rebellious terroristic act of "showing it to the system" in like literally the laziest way possible? I get that in the real world a lot of things don't get done because they are hard, but I would question that maybe for some things some whatever low bar of actual effort and investment makes sense? If you do something because it is low effort, but then don't do it if it is marginally more effort, then how much did you really care about the thing in the first place? (ie you want to communicate to the world that you are in disagreement with something, that that thing people some people like isn't actually liked by you, the "more effort" version would be post an actual comment and if that really were to get removed, to put in the effort to let's say create your own counter position video or write an article, mail a complaint letter, or even just tweet (on your account, your own mini platform))

[for the record: I don't think that blankly hiding dislikes is the greatest idea, but I do think the situation is more nuanced]

[Rikki Roxx]

Sometimes I kinda think Medea is me from an alternate universe.

[Mark M]

The problem with constructive criticism comments is the You Tuber can choose to delete it .

Depends on if the person classes the comment as constructive criticism.

[Fendi]

Depends on if the person classes the comment as constructive criticism.

All of Revelations critics give out constructive criticism.

[Mark M]

All of Revelations critics give out constructive criticism.

Ironically though a lot of the comments criticising the show say what they did not like about about the show. Yet in all they commetns saying how brilliant the show is, barely any of the comments actually says what they liked about the show...they are to busy saying to ignore the criticisms etc.

[Ornclown]

I wholeheartedly believe that nothing is above criticism... it's how we learn, grow and become better at whatever we do.

However, blind hatred toward something based on perceived notions is dangerous and toxic.

Maybe if the 'like' and 'dislike' buttons are removed, people will actually have to put their thoughts into words and comment on what they like/dislike?

This fact alone will drive away a lot of the hive-mind review bombers...





Although, if you have ever read some of the comments on a highly contentious YouTube video, you know how sickening people can be...

[Fendi]

Although, if you have ever read some of the comments on a highly contentious YouTube video, you know how sickening people can be...

Like I said above, the anonymity of the internet sometime can have a negative effects on it, it's like doing something bad and always gets away with it. As for removing negative votes? I believe only the owner or creator of the content should allow to see how many people disagree with the videos or learned something from the criticism. Because boy oh boy people online are easily riled up over smallest reason AND feeling overly entitled by their view.....

 

hence why I wanting to avoid social media and stick with close guarded community like forum.

[JSElshoff]

Ironically though a lot of the comments criticising the show say what they did not like about about the show. Yet in all they commetns saying how brilliant the show is, barely any of the comments actually says what they liked about the show...they are to busy saying to ignore the criticisms etc.

Yes, I realized that, too. On YouTube, the "contra" faction seems to be the one explaining and detailing their point of view a lot more.

[Mark M]

....hatred toward something based on perceived notions is dangerous and toxic.

Maybe if the 'like' and 'dislike' buttons are removed, people will actually have to put their thoughts into words and comment on what they like/dislike?

This fact alone will drive away a lot of the hive-mind review bombers....

A lot of it is becasue of those vile hate mongering outrage Youtube channels.

[Lokus]

I wholeheartedly believe that nothing is above criticism... it's how we learn, grow and become better at whatever we do.

However, blind hatred toward something based on perceived notions is dangerous and toxic.

Maybe if the 'like' and 'dislike' buttons are removed, people will actually have to put their thoughts into words and comment on what they like/dislike?

This fact alone will drive away a lot of the hive-mind review bombers...





Although, if you have ever read some of the comments on a highly contentious YouTube video, you know how sickening people can be...

Blind Hatred is an oxymoron . Hate implies you loved something and it betrayed you . The opposite of love is indifference . If there is hatred its because Ol Kevin told us all alot of tall stories to sell his show or for damage control when the gossip leaked out . That poor man needs to fire his public relations department .

What perceived notions ? Everyone including all the evil You Tubers sat down and watched it .

Hive Mind Review Bombers ? Where is this tweet or Tube Vid that commands the EVIL HIVE to rush and spam rotton tomatoes with negative comments ? Oh Yes my Queen Geeky Sparkle Bottom we IGORS serve and OBEY , har har har .

Every Evil You Tuber usually says if you like it good for you , you are welcome to like it , its a free country but i do not like it and here is why i dont like it . OR here is Kevin saying he is a MOTU fan . Here is an older clip of Kevin telling audience HeMan sucks .
You Tubers are better at digging up dirt and they can phrase their critique better than your average poster and they can point out another critique that your average poster may have missed . Thats their job .


You dont like the evil hive mind because if anyone dumps on this series without any outside influence , their arguments will be much weaker and much easier to counter argue . Why ? Because average joe the caveman has a 9 to 5 job .

It matters not if caveman joe is using his own stupid words or words parroted from You Tuber who watched the show ten times to find everything wrong and then used Pulitzer award poetry to voice his feelings . Caveman joe still feels the same as That Tuber . Both are annoyed with the rotton aspects of that show . They still both annoyed at Kev offering his pinky promise that this is not a Teela and the Masters of the Universe show .

Looky everyone a cool HeMan transformation.....

[Ornclown]

Blind Hatred is an oxymoron . Hate implies you loved something and it betrayed you . The opposite of love is indifference . If there is hatred its because Ol Kevin told us all alot of tall stories to sell his show or for damage control when the gossip leaked out . That poor man needs to fire his public relations department .

An oxymoron would be something like "blindsight"... the two words are contradictory of each other and usually used to make a rhetorical point.

Betrayal is what you feel when someone betrays you.

Indifference is the lack of feeling, so really, it could be the opposite of all emotion, whereas hate is the polar extreme of love thus it is usually accepted as the true opposite.

Also, "a lot of tall stories" still doesn't jive. What exactly did he say that was an outright lie? Also, remember that subjectivity is important when thinking about this... no matter what, people are going to believe that He-Man was absent from this show, that Andra is forced diversity and the whole thing was about Teela - even if it isn't true.

What perceived notions ? Everyone including all the evil You Tubers sat down and watched it .

Unfortunately, this just isn't true.

Social media began the smear campaign months before Revelation was ever released. People had made up their minds about the show before seeing even five minutes of it.

After the trailer dropped, many people somehow knew exactly what was going to happen... spoiler: they were wrong.

Hive Mind Review Bombers ? Where is this tweet or Tube Vid that commands the EVIL HIVE to rush and spam rotton tomatoes with negative comments ? Oh Yes my Queen Geeky Sparkle Bottom we IGORS serve and OBEY , har har har .

This sounds about right.

Every Evil You Tuber usually says if you like it good for you , you are welcome to like it , its a free country but i do not like it and here is why i dont like it . OR here is Kevin saying he is a MOTU fan . Here is an older clip of Kevin telling audience HeMan sucks .
You Tubers are better at digging up dirt and they can phrase their critique better than your average poster and they can point out another critique that your average poster may have missed . Thats their job .

Sadly, they are explaining why the show is going to be terrible before even seeing it. This is pure speculation and conjecture based on asinine rumors circulating through the very same communities that created them.

Also, "digging up dirt" and "fabricating facts" are not quite the same thing. But, I'm beginning to see where the problem lies...

And their 'job' is to make money. To make money they need clicks, to get clicks they spread fallacies and hope that the hate spreads far enough to bring more clicks.

You dont like the evil hive mind because if anyone dumps on this series without any outside influence , their arguments will be much weaker and much easier to counter argue . Why ? Because average joe the caveman has a 9 to 5 job .

It matters not if caveman joe is using his own stupid words or words parroted from You Tuber who watched the show ten times to find everything wrong and then used Pulitzer award poetry to voice his feelings . Caveman joe still feels the same as That Tuber . Both are annoyed with the rotton aspects of that show . They still both annoyed at Kev offering his pinky promise that this is not a Teela and the Masters of the Universe show .

Looky everyone a cool HeMan transformation.....

Umm, okay?

Just a quick reminder that we still haven't seen the whole series yet... Is Teela an important character? Yes. Is Revelation the "Teela and the Masters of the Universe" show? No.

[Dice]

Every Evil You Tuber usually says if you like it good for you , you are welcome to like it , its a free country but i do not like it and here is why i dont like it . OR here is Kevin saying he is a MOTU fan . Here is an older clip of Kevin telling audience HeMan sucks .
You Tubers are better at digging up dirt and they can phrase their critique better than your average poster and they can point out another critique that your average poster may have missed . Thats their job .

1. It's not a job.

2. They don't convince people of anything that those people did not already want to believe. This whole thing about "Kevin lied" is a top story for "this show is an attack on muh manhood". That's why multiple YouTubers have basically the same video saying basically the same thing.


I hate baking and baking is for losers!

Now that I've said that if I bake you the best cake you've ever had years from now, will you throw it on the ground and say, "you lied!!" ?

[benvoliothefirst]

Hmm, interesting... Even on the fan site where people have a huge attachment to the franchise, more than three times as many people liked Revelation than didn't. Hope this gives you a little faith, Ricky Roxx.

[Rikki Roxx]

They're all gonna have to watch it about 50 times each if they wanna puff those numbers up enough to get a follow-up season. Get crackin' slackers!

[Lokus]

I just dont get why its so hard for the entertainment industry to just give consumers what they want ? When did making money become a secondary objective ?

[AlexApprobation]

I just dont get why its so hard for the entertainment industry to just give consumers what they want ? When did making money become a secondary objective ?

Because consumers aren't a monolith... so many different people have different ideas of what they think they want. And even when they get that, some will complain that it wasn't how they wanted it.

You have to do what's best for the story and what will hopefully most people will enjoy. It's like the old saying, "you can't please all of the people all of the time." And that's REALLY true these days.

[Ornclown]

I just dont get why its so hard for the entertainment industry to just give consumers what they want ? When did making money become a secondary objective ?

Who says that they didn't?

[Dice]

Who says that they didn't?

There are more than a few of us

[Catra2017]

Part 1 got me interested, part 2 was decent.