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Thread: Origins: General News

  1. #4951
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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    It's stated emphatically in the power of grayskull documentary...by several people who were at mattel, managing the brand, watching it happen in real time --angry-- as their hearts were breaking. I'm certain some degree of all the anecdotal crap discussed in the thread you linked played a role in the overnight demise of motu, but nothing is killing a boys brand faster than changing the main character from male to female and populating the protagonists figures throughout the girls' aisle in pink boxes.

    Paraphrasing: 'Motu went from a bad ass, take no prisoners brand for boys to a thing your little sister wanted.'

    While we're being anecdotal, no other toyline has been as successful as motu and fallen off as fast/ No other toyline has shifted the focus of it's media and main figure line to appeal to girls because their barbie department got mad.
    The "The Toys that Made Us" some one mentions that the marketing people heard form boys that did not want He-Man any more because now they had to share the over all universe with their sisters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty.81 View Post
    Most of those boys that rejected She-Ra back in the 80's are now men in the late 30s to early 40s looking up and drawing pictures like this (may not ne safe for work). So I would think it's safe to say they're more excepting of girls.
    Forgive me, multiquote isnt working on this pc.

    Anyway. she-ra's already in the line, dude. no one disputes she-ra's importance, draw, and validity as a key motu character. what's being discussed is her surrounding cast deserving more regular inclusion in the origins line. Personally, I think we'd all rather have generic repaints like the snakemen that populated the eternia display than bow and whomever else.

    Not saying that doesnt suck for she-ra fans. I'm saying i get why mattel isnt in a rush to spend the money to do pop right, while also mentioning i'm in no rush to see them do it, either. My accessory bag already has two hair-brush axes. I'm good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty.81 View Post
    The "The Toys that Made Us" some one mentions that the marketing people heard form boys that did not want He-Man any more because now they had to share the over all universe with their sisters.
    That may even be what i'm thinking of. I watched both back to back i'm pretty sure. Thanks, smitty.

  3. #4953
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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    Personally, I think we'd all rather have generic repaints like the snakemen that populated the eternia display than bow and whomever else.
    Speak for yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty.81 View Post
    Speak for yourself.
    Okay, point me to the section of the internet where people are as excited for scorpia, mermista and sea-hawk figures as the people at sdcc were for skelecons and spray-painted kitbashes of snakemen. And i will go there and do just that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    Okay, point me to the section of the internet where people are as excited for scorpia, mermista and sea-hawk figures as the people at sdcc were for skelecons and spray-painted kitbashes of snakemen. And i will go there and do just that.
    I would 100% be in for POP figures in Origins. If they dole them out like Sun Man, whatís the big deal? I obviously wasnít that excited about them in the 80ís but, I would be ecstatic to add these now. I would probably keep them carded but, bring Ďem on! I especially want Scorpia, Sea Hawk, Entrapta, and all things Horde.


    On the other hand, I would buy multiples of Skelecons and various Snake Men. If they plan right, this is all a possibility.

    But, of course, money talks and Mattelís decisions have hardly anything to do with what we want. Itís all about the bottom dollar.

  6. #4956
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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    Okay, point me to the section of the internet where people are as excited for scorpia, mermista and sea-hawk figures as the people at sdcc were for skelecons and spray-painted kitbashes of snakemen. And i will go there and do just that.
    TFW2005, and the POP section here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    Okay, point me to the section of the internet where people are as excited for scorpia, mermista and sea-hawk figures as the people at sdcc were for skelecons and spray-painted kitbashes of snakemen. And i will go there and do just that.
    Those were in the display. Of course they have generated excitement. If they had POP in the display as well I'm sure there are people who would be just as excited.
    Last edited by depp76; November 9, 2022 at 05:30pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by depp76 View Post
    Those were in the display. Of course they have generated excitement. If they had POP in the display as well I'm sure there are people who would be just as excited.
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    The She-Ra figures appeared in 1984, so my guess is there'll be a push in 2024 for the anniversary. Probably the best way to look at it is we've every indication that Origins is becoming a catch-all line like Masterverse. Frankly they'd be nuts not to do PoP after renewing the names and introducing, well, take your pick, Anti-Eternia He-Man, RotS, 200X, exclusives for CGI and NA... there's just more chance of PoP figures happening than not. She-Ra just appeared on Grizzlor's card art too. Was she in the mini comic? I can't remember.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy Skeletor View Post
    The She-Ra figures appeared in 1984, so my guess is there'll be a push in 2024 for the anniversary. Probably the best way to look at it is we've every indication that Origins is becoming a catch-all line like Masterverse. Frankly they'd be nuts not to do PoP after renewing the names and introducing, well, take your pick, Anti-Eternia He-Man, RotS, 200X, exclusives for CGI and NA... there's just more chance of PoP figures happening than not. She-Ra just appeared on Grizzlor's card art too. Was she in the mini comic? I can't remember.
    Yes Adora was in the Grizzlor minicomic

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    In visiting tfw2005's non-transformer page, as well as our site's she-ra pages, I now legitimately feel bad for the 11 of you that really want to see pop happen in origins. That reads terribly, but I mean it. As a real ghostbusters fan that was really hoping the plasma series would dip into the more iconic ghost characters from the cartoon (along with up to 9 other people on the planet,) all of you have my sympathies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    It's stated emphatically in the power of grayskull documentary...by several people who were at mattel, managing the brand, watching it happen in real time --angry-- as their hearts were breaking. I'm certain some degree of all the anecdotal crap discussed in the thread you linked played a role in the overnight demise of motu, but nothing is killing a boys brand faster than changing the main character from male to female and populating the protagonists figures throughout the girls' aisle in pink boxes.

    Paraphrasing: 'Motu went from a bad ass, take no prisoners brand for boys to a thing your little sister wanted.'

    While we're being anecdotal, no other toyline has been as successful as motu and fallen off as fast/ No other toyline has shifted the focus of it's media and main figure line to appeal to girls because their barbie department got mad.
    There are a lot of opinions why MOTU went down, but just because some creators feel emasculated is not necessarily it. With respect to creators, they don’t always know, either.
    I actually don’t love all of the later MOTU stuff, plus the boys grew up, times were changing, too many factions, the movie did not what they hoped, yada yada

    There are certainly people in fandom who nowadays go berserk if a male-led franchise changes to a female-led, but I’d like to think boys back then were not as toxic.
    But as far as Motu, it’s not like She-Ra suddenly took He-Man’s spot on Eternia. She wasn’t even in the same toy line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    Okay, point me to the section of the internet where people are as excited for scorpia, mermista and sea-hawk figures as the people at sdcc were for skelecons and spray-painted kitbashes of snakemen. And i will go there and do just that.
    Look no further! Although I'd say I'm more excited for Double Trouble, Entrapta, and Castaspella than I am the three you mentioned .

  14. #4964
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    I loved She-Ra as a kid. I had the figure and used her with my MOTU.

    Over here the adverts had He-Man with her in the ads.

    https://youtu.be/DcC7NwurXMM

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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    In visiting tfw2005's non-transformer page, as well as our site's she-ra pages, I now legitimately feel bad for the 11 of you that really want to see pop happen in origins. That reads terribly, but I mean it. As a real ghostbusters fan that was really hoping the plasma series would dip into the more iconic ghost characters from the cartoon (along with up to 9 other people on the planet,) all of you have my sympathies.
    POP toys were technically dolls and not action figures per-se, however, as we've seen them in Classics, their transition to action figures were very good, however most of them still look aesthetically more part of a fairy tale fantasy property than the traditional MOTU except for a few of them.

    In my personal opinion, if they wanna release them in Origins, probably POP should have their own stylistic packaging as discussed before, and have the Masters of the Universe logo as a sticker on the clear bubbles or as a secondary side print somewhere, this way they're technically part of the MOTUO line, but still they have their own legit 5.5" line.

    I think this is a good middle ground marketing solution for both sides of the same coin so to speak; who support POP in Origins, and who don't care much for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    In visiting tfw2005's non-transformer page, as well as our site's she-ra pages, I now legitimately feel bad for the 11 of you that really want to see pop happen in origins. That reads terribly, but I mean it. As a real ghostbusters fan that was really hoping the plasma series would dip into the more iconic ghost characters from the cartoon (along with up to 9 other people on the planet,) all of you have my sympathies.
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    I lean towards the idea that it depends on how PoP is done.

    If it's its own line, I think it works. Adult collectors can just ignore it if they don't like it. It won't even be in the same aisle.

    If it's as an addition to Origins, I think it works. The key is to handle it like RotS. Say, one "Great Rebellion" character per wave sticking to the absolute core roster of PoP characters for the Etherian women. This probably makes sense from a budget perspective as the women all need new body tooling. IMHO, this especially works if you're using the opportunity to make the Horde the big bad of Origins and treat the Etherian characters as team specialists brought in. Might also work to slip in NA heroes at the same time and Rio Blast (and maybe Bravestar) as the Horde is a galactic threat.

    As I've said before, there are probably around 20 viable Horde figures so a "Horde Invasion" storyline works and maybe you have Hordak hire the NA Mutants along the way. There's a solid 18 month "storyline" that gets you around 10 PoP heroes (which includes Bow and Seahawk).

    I think, to the extent there was a problem in the 80s, it was driven in part by Filmation's treatment of things where MOTU fans "had" to watch PoP for the storyline behind Horde, Snakemen, Snout Spout, etc. Had MOTU continued alongside PoP, there wouldn't be quite as much the feeling that the spinoff was taking over.

  18. #4968
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    Let me start by saying it's nice to be having this discussion with you all. That said...

    Quote Originally Posted by cminc View Post
    In visiting tfw2005's non-transformer page, as well as our site's she-ra pages, I now legitimately feel bad for the 11 of you that really want to see pop happen in origins. That reads terribly, but I mean it. As a real ghostbusters fan that was really hoping the plasma series would dip into the more iconic ghost characters from the cartoon (along with up to 9 other people on the planet,) all of you have my sympathies.
    Oh boy. I'm really going to resist the urge to use the eye roll emoticon throughout this post because there are a LOT of things said here that are worthy of it, but I don't want to appear hostile to any of you.

    Yes, that does read terribly because it simply isn't true. Sorry, but you are wrong to state that only...sigh...11 people care about seeing She-Ra characters in Origins. I mean...you know that isn't the case. Lets be real here.

    She-Ra is internationally recognized. Her series was syndicated, same as He-Man's, around the world for the last almost 40 years and translated into countless languages. So no...she isn't some obscure weird cult thing that only 11 of us here on the internet care about. Let's please talk in real terms here. There is a market for figures of the characters from her show. It's just a question of whether or not Mattel chooses to see it.

    I cannot emphasize this enough but remember: Mattel just chose to buy and promote a Z-list toyline with zero connections to MOTU...as PART of MOTU, a part they had faith buyers would embrace...over an EXISTING part of the MOTU universe with a proven track record. The message seems to be "random male character no one has ever heard of being wedged into MOTU is less of a gamble than existing female characters from the beloved POP line." That's....crazy to me. Maybe that's not exactly how they thought about it, but it's certainly how it appears right now.

    There are a lot of opinions why MOTU went down, but just because some creators feel emasculated is not necessarily it. With respect to creators, they don’t always know, either.
    I actually don’t love all of the later MOTU stuff, plus the boys grew up, times were changing, too many factions, the movie did not what they hoped, yada yada

    There are certainly people in fandom who nowadays go berserk if a male-led franchise changes to a female-led, but I’d like to think boys back then were not as toxic.
    But as far as Motu, it’s not like She-Ra suddenly took He-Man’s spot on Eternia. She wasn’t even in the same toy line.
    Thank you. This does, I'm afraid, come down to fragile masculinity in some ways. If the majority of MOTU-buying customers are, at this point, adult men old enough not to be freaked out by the presence of female characters in the universe (because it was always strange that there seemed to be only 4 females of note in the MOTU world anyhow), then why are we still acting as if these grown men can't bear to see a single other girl in the line?

    ...the fact that She-Ra's characters were sold using pink packaging and had combs and brushable hair has become this shadow over the entire property for some of you. It was rejected outright as "inferior" and not as action oriented, and frankly, it's up to Mattel to follow Lou Scheimer's lead and see these characters as equals. Because that's how they were in their connected animated shows.

    Filmation developed all the characters on both shows in similar ways (maybe even better on She-Ra frankly) so that girls could enjoy He-Man and boys could enjoy She-Ra. How many t shirts are there of the Twins of Power? The public sees them as linked. There's no longer a reason here to keep She-Ra in this box off to the side.

    And to be clear, when I'm advocating for She-Ra in Origins here, I'm not referring to the 80s toyline. The girly fantasy warrior spirit of that line, fantastic fashions and all, simply couldn't be improved upon today. I'm not sure where it would fit into the toy market, and considering how many She-Ra fans didn't even fully love those figures back in the day, I would definitely consider bringing them back a misstep.

    But you know what we still haven't seen? Proper Filmation toys of the She-Ra cast, in the classic vintage scale. Super7 started to make some (Hordak, Weaver and one homely She-Ra, with a terrible Teela-influenced body, unfortunately) but thus far Mattel hasn't.

    I don't think the Origins She-Ra they released pleased anybody honestly. Her face was weird, the 80s POP costume looked tacky when done using today's cheapo fabrics and garish plastic. Seriously, the vintage figure, even as a non-Filmation look, was better looking. So I'll say it again: Mattel should use Filmation She-Ra designs in Origins, period. It's what we haven't seen yet. It's what we want.

    Bringing me to this:

    So you're saying that Masterverse that literally are Filmation Pop are still not Filmation Pop
    .

    ....Ok, I will be harsh now but Origins has every reason to ignore you


    This is Filmation Pop. I also compared Classics Pop and while some of them are obviously different, plenty like Catra, Scorpia, Glimmer look exactly like from the show. But it's all apparently not faithful enough for you. I'm just going to guess that if all your demands will finally be listened to and Origins will do POP....you will not like them. Wow, what a waste of everyone's time and effort.
    Details in a smaller scale are more forgivable. In a 7 inch figure, yeah, I kinda think there's enough room to get an exact likeness. In a smaller scale, it can look more or less right and people will accept it. So please don't claim I'm never going to be happy with what's offered. I *LOVE* my Filmation Skeletor and He-Man from the Super7 6 inch line. Evil Lyn as well. And I *LOVE* my Neo-vintage Shadow Weaver and Hordak from Super7. Those are both great, great figures.

    Mastersverse isn't looking...great. They're serviceable, but frankly, they aren't Beautiful. I'd kinda like figures that look beautiful, because of proportions/faces/costume details/etc. Obviously YMMV, but to say I should be ignored for wanting things that look good? That's silly.


    Kol-Darr does not look accurate. 200X Skeletor does not look accurate. Anti-Keldor does not look accurate. CGI He-Man does not look accurate. What makes you think that a line of small simple painted parts reusing toys will be any more accurate than Masterverse or Classics.

    SO. WHY. SHOULD. THEY. LISTEN. TO. YOU. Why try to please the demanding when they are already people willing to pay for their She-Ra toys. You're saying that Mattel could make a fortune of Filmation She-Ra. And they're clearly agreeing with you because they sold them both in Classics and Masterverse.You can get way more complete set of Filmation She-Ra than Filmation He-Man. And from what I got from your last post you did buy Classics POP as did many fans. Because most people will not hang up over the fact that Sweet Bee has extra yellow stripe or something.

    Look, I get wanting She-Ra as a franchise to thrive. But maybe getting 100% accurate toys based on a cartoon that is 37 years old and was using cheapest animation western cartoons ever had is not something worth hanging up on.
    Take a moment, please, to think of how many Betty Boop dolls, clocks, figures, t shirts and assorted crap you've seen out there in the wild. She predates He-Man and She-Ra, nobody really particularly cares about her actual films or identity, and yet somehow manufacturers are always able to get her proportions right and keep her looking consistently great. They've honored the design aesthetics of a character decades older than the ones we are discussing - imagine that!

    So saying "it's old so don't expect accuracy" isn't much of an argument.

    While Classics did hit the nail on the head sometimes (Razz, Mermista's head), largely Mattel just doesn't really seem to care much how good She-Ra characters look when they put them out there (again: THOSE AWFUL CLASSICS CROTCHES. I'll never get over those.). It seems to fall to the designers to some degree, but also this pesky "we can't do Filmation looks so we'll do something close but not quite identical" legal situation (if that is even still the case - is it? I'm very curious to know.)

    I'm not saying this JUST as a person who wants easily available Filmation She-Ra toys, but as someone speaking up for the other people around the world who would see a Filmation She-Ra/Catra/Frosta/Bow/Mantenna or whoever at their local Walmart this holiday season, say "Oh wow - remember this show? My sister/brother/cousin used to love it! Only 20 bucks a figure? Wow. I'll buy them two for their stocking!" Those people exist.

    I am *not* claiming that She-Ra is a guaranteed hit or that the figures would sell out or something...that's really impossible for me to predict...but I do see that there are a lot of people who view these properties as intertwined, who loved the shows and hold a special place for them in their hearts. But Mattel keeps ignoring them, and trying to resell the exact same boys toyline (in spirit) that made them billions in the 80s, right down to the juvenile "no girly things allowed!" mentality that had no place in toy aisles back then, and definitely no place in them today.

    And then there's this:

    Sun man happened for political points AND simple parts re-use to round out waves with. Pop requires almost new tooling or a basic buck that gets the details painted on and everyones's gonna be crying sexism the whole time while their best efforts result in pegwarming no matter what.
    Um....how aren't there already parts available for POP/She-Ra characters? There are. The Teela/Sorceress/She-Ra bodies (and MOTWWEU female figures, as well) are all perfectly ready for reuse. All you'd need are different heads and possibly chests (Glimmer and Angela share chests anyway). And why would they peg-warm exactly...? We haven't had ANY She-Ra figures in stores in DECADES now, except those based on the recent Netflix show, and they were all different scales and hardly available to most people. So there isn't much to go on there, if you're trying to suggest She-Ra characters would flop.

    There is this pervasive "She-Ra is inferior/She-Ra won't sell/She-Ra drags down the He-Man brand" mentality based on nothing. So long as Mattel keeps He-Man characters on a pedestal and She-Ra characters as an afterthought, of course it's going to seem like She-Ra isn't as popular.

    Honestly, I think there's a HUGE market for She-Ra characters mixed in with He-Man ones. No one is saying you personally have to buy them all, but plenty of us loved both Filmation shows and would buy characters from both worlds, if they were available.

    I hope they become available soon in the Origins line. Thanks to those who share my frustration.
    Last edited by DisneyBoy; November 9, 2022 at 09:03pm.

  19. #4969
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    I doubt any female figures in Origins would pegwarm. Masterverse is another story, but as far as my experience with Origins at retail, I've never seen a Teela, Evil-Lyn (either version of them, for that matter), She-Ra, or Sorceress just sitting around collecting dust. So I imagine that future females in the line, be it Queen Marlena or Shokoti or Octavia or Netossa... these would probably disappear from shelves pretty quickly. Especially when you consider any of the women beyond the ones already released in Origins would be brought to this particular 5.5 scale with this kind of articulation for the very first time. Bring on that PoP and those Filmation MOTU ladies!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    I doubt any female figures in Origins would pegwarm. Masterverse is another story, but as far as my experience with Origins at retail, I've never seen a Teela, Evil-Lyn (either version of them, for that matter), She-Ra, or Sorceress just sitting around collecting dust. So I imagine that future females in the line, be it Queen Marlena or Shokoti or Octavia or Netossa... these would probably disappear from shelves pretty quickly. Especially when you consider any of the women beyond the ones already released in Origins would be brought to this particular 5.5 scale with this kind of articulation for the very first time. Bring on that PoP and those Filmation MOTU ladies!
    Sorceress and Evil-Lyn v2 collected dust where I live. Granted, everything else in their wave did as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret View Post
    Sorceress and Evil-Lyn v2 collected dust where I live. Granted, everything else in their wave did as well.
    Even online, they're prone to be more available especially the sorceress for some reason!
    Not sure if the aesthetics have something to do with it or not!... The yellow Evil-Lyn and Teela are very iconic characters and more recognizable than any other females in the brand, aside from She-Ra of course, so they're always hot and sought after.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret View Post
    Sorceress and Evil-Lyn v2 collected dust where I live. Granted, everything else in their wave did as well.
    Some have said this wave was maybe overproduced– lots of Jitsu also still on Amazon, for cheap… I don’t think he’s such an unpopular character. Buzz Off was one of the few Origins I found / bought in store!

    Now 200X Lyn is not the most exciting… some collectors might have passed on her. It’s not because of the character, but it was a very cheap repaint that doesn’t even look much like the 200X. But still, I got her, of course, as a Lyn fan, and a second Sorceress for cheap, too, to keep carded!

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    Whoo that was a long discussion to sift through.

    Over here the only pegwarming lass is Goddess; probably because she's too obscure. I think many fans here don't know about the pre-filmation stuff.

    I personally don't fret over the accuracy of characters toy depictions; I just want a nice looking figure.

    After all, with G1 transformers and even original vintage MotU, it's not like those toys were cartoon-accurate anyway.

    Why are we, as adults so preoccupied with cartoon accuracy when as kids we mostly didn't give a toss and just enjoyed our toys?

    I mean, I've had my fair share of gripes with toys (mostly around price or poor plastic quality) but personally I'm actually very fond of Origins due to its sturdiness and price. Personally I feel it's the best of the He-Man line if you're looking for a good sturdy toy for fiddling with.
    Last edited by binkibonsai; November 10, 2022 at 12:37am. Reason: Because I just woke up and the train is boarding at the station.

    Vote with your wallet.

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  24. #4974
    Lord of Nothingness Darkkosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by binkibonsai View Post
    Whoo that was a long discussion to sift through.

    Over here the only pegwarming lass is Goddess; probably because she's too obscure. I think many fans here don't know about the pre-filmation stuff.

    I personally don't fret over the accuracy of characters toy depictions; I just want a nice looking figure.

    After all, with G1 transformers and even original vintage MotU, it's not like those toys were cartoon-accurate anyway.
    Thank God that wasn't the case with MOTU... Filmation toys would've looked so underwhelming.
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  25. #4975
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    I had no idea that people DIDN'T want PoP in Origins...

    That's like skipping the Snakemen or the Horde... PoP is MotU and MotU is PoP.

    In fact, I consider Filmation PoP Seasons 1 & 2 to be MOTU Seasons 3 & 4.
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