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Thread: Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness

  1. #26
    Snoogans Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Just saw it tonight. I enjoyed it overall, but IMO it wasn't quite as good as I was hoping for it to be.

    Some of the surprises were cool.

     
    I knew Patrick Stewart was going to be in it as Professor X since his voice could be heard in the trailer. What I wasn't expecting was for him to not only be in the more "futuristic" chair that he uses in the comics and 90s cartoon series, but also for the 90s cartoon theme to play when he showed up.

    John Krasinski as Mr Fantastic was pretty cool. I had heard some rumors about that, but really didn't dive deep into them or take them too seriously, wanting to keep as much a surprise as I could


    Where the movie was a bit of a let down for me...

     
    It felt like with the multiverse concept, a lot more could have been done with it. Both in terms of surprises, but also plot wise. To me it sort of felt like having the biggest available box of Crayola Crayons you can get your hands on, and only using a small fraction of the colors, if that makes sense.

    Also, while I generally like Sam Raimi and his style (I'm a fan of the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness series, as well as his Spider-Man movies, particularly the first two), and many aspects of that were otherwise welcome here, and while the MCU films have varied in style to some extent or another, this overall felt a bit TOO campy for something that is squarely within the MCU. That style worked well with his Spider-Man movies for what they were. The issue is that here it felt somewhat out of place. The biggest example IMO being the scene where the Illuminati are battling Wanda. While many of these are either characters or versions of characters we mostly haven't seen before (or in the case of Captain Carter, only saw in animated form), the issue was that when they lined up for battle, the whole thing felt and looked kind of cheesy. And it still would have felt that way if, for example, it had been the core team from the first Avengers movie there instead, but directed in this same style.

    I don't know, it just bugged me a little bit. I certainly want Sam Raimi's style in a movie he directs, but I just felt the campiness should have been dialed back a bit more.

    Beyond the camp issues, to me it kind of dragged a bit. Not terribly so, but the running time is 2 hours and 6 mins, making it one of the shorter MCU movies, but it didn't "feel" shorter than the average MCU film.

    I was one of the better movies of Phase 4, but that's not really saying much. IMO the only really great Phase 4 movie so far as been Spider-Man No Way Home. Most of the other movies (and Disney+ shows for that matter) that I've seen have ranged from "meh" to decent/pretty good (but not great).

    Also, emphasis on "that I've seen." With Phase 1-3, I never missed a movie and made it a point to watch them all as they came out. I still haven't watched The Eternals (I intend to at some point, I even bought the Blu-Ray for my MCU collection, but just haven't been in a hurry to watch it). I still have to watch some of the Disney+ shows like Hawkeye and Moon Knight.

    I'm hoping Thor Love and Thunder will be really good. The trailer looks great, and it has the same director as Ragnarok, which was a great movie IMO. But I don't want to get my hopes up too much.
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  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    I enjoyed it, I can certainly see the horror elements (made me jump a few times).

     
    I don't know how to feel about the first Fantastic Four and X-Men stuff in the MCU are alternate versions of Reed and Xavier who get killed a couple of scenes after they are introduced.

  3. #28
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    I saw the movie last night and thought it was pretty good. It wasn't great but it was very good. It had some obvious flaws but not enough to detract any enjoyment from me. The effects were overall very good with a few minor exceptions. I liked all the characters in the film and look forward to seeing them again in future films to continue the events that occur within. The events within the movie also make the Disney+ shows required viewing to fully grasp the story. It is indeed essential that the viewer has seen previous movies as well as shows (even the animated one) to understand what is going on. But, it was still an entertaining experience. I'd give it an 8 out of 10.

    Now for specifics:

     
    I loved the gruesome deaths of all the multiverse Illuminati council members, particularly Professor X and Mr. Fantastic. They were both paying service to certain fans who clamored annoyingly for those particular incarnations of the characters as well shutting the doors on them appearing in the 616 MCU continuity. It was very satisfying to me. It was also cool that Marvel/Disney brought back the same actor who played Black Bolt in the ill-reviewed and ill-received Inhumans TV show. The fact that alternate universe Baron Mordo wasn't killed in the slaughter (on screen at least) also makes it seem like Marvel/Disney has more plans for that character.

    I also liked the appearance of Clea in the mid credit scene with a glimpse of the Dark Dimension (perhaps a return of a more comic accurate Dormammu?) but I wasn't completely taken by the choice of Charlize Theron. She is a great actress but having her playing Clea makes it feel like it was more of a one-off appearance rather than something permanent. But I could be wrong.
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  4. #29
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    I really enjoyed this movie, but I do agree with others who say that it's not quite what you're expecting.

    I wish they had let Raimi have a bit more control over some choices because you could definitely feel the horror-esque moments creeping up - only to be quickly stifled.

    Two things:

     
    1.) I wish that America Chavez was replaced with Illyana Rasputin. Her whole gimmick is universe/multiverse transporting, and she is queen of a demonic realm... seriously, this whole movie was made for her. Moreover, it would have been an incredible way to introduce the existence of the mutant gene into the MCU. Sam Raimi could have had a ball with her.

    2.) There should have been more Multiverse-hopping for Strange... especially during the Wanda fight. How cool would it have been to see them bouncing from universe to universe locked in battle? One minute they are turned into a giant hamburger and hotdog duking it out, the next they are spiraling out of control as wet paint splats, and then thrown into Earth-2149: the Zombie World. (Not having the Marvel Zombies show up was an epic missed-opportunity... especially for Raimi.)
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  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    I have to wonder if it's a delineate design choice to follow up this film, with the presumably much lighter Ms Marvel?

  6. #31
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    For a Marvel movie thought it was badass and bonkers. Pretty much what I hoped a dr. strange movie would be. Going to try to see it again this weekend.

  7. #32
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    We went and saw it yesterday and had a good time. This movie to me felt more like a stand alone, which is OK, but I guess I was hoping for more conclusive "leaks" into other universes (that we'll see in the future). I've been assuming that eventually Marvel will not so much bring back (or new) characters into the current universe but instead have movies that exist in other universes altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    I have to wonder if it's a delineate design choice to follow up this film, with the presumably much lighter Ms Marvel?
    I feel like it's pretty obvious they're heading towards a Young Avengers movie what with Kate Bishop and now Ms. Marvel. Adding America Chavez gives them a nice core to work with.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dcr4 View Post
    For a Marvel movie thought it was badass and bonkers. Pretty much what I hoped a dr. strange movie would be. Going to try to see it again this weekend.
    I agree. I need to mention I really liked more of the semi-horror aspects of it. I loved strange using monsters as his weapons and the overall tone.
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  8. #33
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    I watched it last Friday and I did really enjoyed, however the whole Multiverse tagline left me wanting more.

    Benedict Cumberbatch is awesome as Dr. Strange and I hope he remains quite a bit for some sort of next epic Avengers like saga.

    On the other hand...

     
    I had a lot of hype about the rumor of Tom Cruise as an alternate universe Iron Man cameo. It would have been freaking awesome.

    The illuminati were very second handed, TV budget heroes and costumes, and there were dispatched with kinda little effort from RC Scarlet Witch. I mean, they defeated Thanos and SW alone killed them off in les than 10 min. I could understand Black Bolt since it seems that Marvel won't get into the Inhumans lore for the time being, but Mr Fantastic & Prof X initial battle in the MCU left a lot to be desired... probably forcing again an all women battle that also felt too little, specially for all people who grew some affection to Captain Carter character (people cheered when she appeared).
    I wonder if they shall present another Universe 616 Illuminati after Black Panther 2 with the introduction of Namor and the next F4 movie.

    Wanda's journey became so tragic and rechaed the point of no return so fast that felt a little bit empty, specially avoiding to mention Vision in the whole movie and kinda make Wanda's Vision show to look even more silly.
    Besides, who was the father of thier chldren in the alternate universe?

    This could have been a great Avengers Disassembled movie plot if done properly
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  9. #34
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhanen View Post

    On the other hand...
    Didn't she...

     
    Mention killing her husband/Vision at one point in the movie?
    Also my oldest son had the same problem with how easily the Illuminate were wiped out by Wanda. It's like they completely let there guard down. My son even said "Reed Richards practically told her what to do to Black Bolt".
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Didn't she...
    Yes, still...

     
    she does not mention his name, nor what happened to White Vision, just briefly says what happened in Westview. It's kinda sad if White Vision get to know she is dead now and he just doesn't care.
    And I agree 100% with your son. It was a shocking scene, but quite silly
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  11. #36
    Heroic Warrior Wakko's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed this, but one thing bothered me throughout the movie:

     
    Wanda was obsessed with finding a reality where she could be with her sons... Why not a reality where she could be with her sons and Vision? Given that she loved the actual Vision, but her sons were actually creations of her magic, one would think her primary desire would be to reunite with Vision, first and foremost, and her sons secondly. Or at the very least all three of them. Was something said within the movie addressing why Wanda wasn't seeking out a reality that included Vision? Was he supposedly dead in every reality? All I kept thinking was, "Apparently they didn't want to pay Paul Bettany to be in this movie."
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  12. #37
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhanen View Post
    Yes, still...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakko View Post
    I really enjoyed this, but one thing bothered me throughout the movie:
    Maybe that's the real answer to both of your thoughts...not having to pay extra from the rights?
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  13. #38
    Heroic Warrior Wakko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Maybe that's the real answer to both of your thoughts...not having to pay extra from the rights?
    I don't think it's a rights issue...

     
    ...since Marvel/Disney owns Vision. But it may have been a matter of not wanting to pay to bring Bettany in for what would have been a very small part. Or maybe they felt like Wanda and Vision already had their heartfelt goodbye on WandaVision and didn't want to go over that territory a second time. Also, would the climax to the movie work if Vision was present? The way America got Wanda to stop was to show her that she was terrifying her children. This tactic would not have been the same if Vision was present.

    Regardless, I felt like the script failed in that it made Wanda look like she no longer cared for Vision. Whereas on WandaVision it was her love for him that caused her to generate an alternate reality and enslave the minds of an entire town. I just can't help but feel like the ball got dropped here where Vision was concerned.

    Otherwise... I really did enjoy this movie.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post
    The events within the movie also make the Disney+ shows required viewing to fully grasp the story. It is indeed essential that the viewer has seen previous movies as well as shows (even the animated one) to understand what is going on.
    I haven't seen any of the Disney + shows and I had no problems following this movie.

    Wanda Vision = Wanda enslaves a town to live out her fantasies. This movie is a sequel to that.

    I don't recall any connections to No Way Home.

    Could just be me though.

  15. #40
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I feel like it's pretty obvious they're heading towards a Young Avengers movie what with Kate Bishop and now Ms. Marvel. Adding America Chavez gives them a nice core to work with.
    Do not forget Cassy, Elijah, Billy, Tommy, and Loki whom we have also already seen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Didn't she...
    Yes.

     
    She says, "I blew a hole in the head of the man I loved for nothing," in reference to the events of Infinity War/EndGame.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakko View Post
    I really enjoyed this, but one thing bothered me throughout the movie:
    Likely, because she has accepted that Pietro and Vision are dead, but she has never experienced the twins being alive.

  16. #41
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakko View Post
    I don't think it's a rights issue...


     
    ...since Marvel/Disney owns Vision. But it may have been a matter of not wanting to pay to bring Bettany in for what would have been a very small part. Or maybe they felt like Wanda and Vision already had their heartfelt goodbye on WandaVision and didn't want to go over that territory a second time. Also, would the climax to the movie work if Vision was present? The way America got Wanda to stop was to show her that she was terrifying her children. This tactic would not have been the same if Vision was present.

    Regardless, I felt like the script failed in that it made Wanda look like she no longer cared for Vision. Whereas on WandaVision it was her love for him that caused her to generate an alternate reality and enslave the minds of an entire town. I just can't help but feel like the ball got dropped here where Vision was concerned.


    Otherwise... I really did enjoy this movie.
    Here is my thought on this:

     
    While the absence of Vision in this movie perplexed me a bit in the beginning, I believe he was not present in 616 Wanda's dreams because technically Vision does still exist in her continuity, albeit as the albino version who only recently was uploaded with his memories pre-Blip. But her children, who were completely just manifestations of her powers, were completely erased without a trace in the 616 universe hence why she is searching different realities for them. That's my rationalization on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn29 View Post
    I haven't seen any of the Disney + shows and I had no problems following this movie.

    Wanda Vision = Wanda enslaves a town to live out her fantasies. This movie is a sequel to that.

    I don't recall any connections to No Way Home.

    Could just be me though.
    Well, WandaVision introduces many of the concepts in Doctor Strange 2:

     
    The Darkhold is introduced in the series, which is one of the McGuffins of this picture (with America Chavez). It also has the introduction of her children, Billy and Tommy, who are featured in this film as well as her moniker. The Scarlet Witch and her history in witchcraft lore.


    What If? also introduces components for this film:

     
    The appearance of Captain Carter was the focus of 1 episode in the series and her look is directly based form that episode complete with jet pack. Evil Dr. Strange was another (complete with 3rd eye and costume coloration). His Earth that was portrayed in the film in the process of decay and disintegration was conceived first in that particular What If? episode as well as his all-encompassing obsession with Christine.


    But it was cool that you were able to follow along. But I think you missed some details that could have added to your enjoyment.

    And Doctor Strange 2 raked in some major moolah this weekend, https://variety.com/2022/film/news/d...se-1235261390/

    "Doctor Strange and his questionably effective book of spells has summoned a blockbuster $185 million at North American movie theaters over the weekend, reaffirming the box office dominance of Disney’s Marvel Cinematic Universe after a shakier, pandemic-battered year for the sprawling franchise.

    The timeline-bending “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” represents a return to form for Disney’s MCU after COVID-era releases “Black Widow” ($80 million debut, plus $60 million on Disney Plus), “Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings” ($75 million debut) and “Eternals” ($71 million debut). Due to the pandemic and other extenuating circumstances, those installments failed to live up to their franchise predecessors in terms of ticket sales.

    Initial box office receipts for Disney’s latest MCU entry mark the 11th biggest opening weekend in history. Given the anomaly of reaching those heights, “Doctor Strange 2” easily delivered the biggest opening weekend of 2022, as well as the second-biggest debut in COVID-19 times. Prior to this weekend, “The Batman” stood as the year’s biggest opening weekend with $134 million. “Spider-Man: No Way Home” still ranks as the pandemic’s biggest opening weekend (and the second-biggest ever) with $260 million.

    Overseas, the film earned $265 million from 49 territories, taking the global total to $450 million. Since “Doctor Strange 2” is not likely to play in China, Russia or Ukraine, the film will rely on repeat viewings from audiences around the globe to push ticket sales past the coveted $1 billion mark. Only “Spider-Man: No Way Home” has been able to cross that threshold since COVID took hold.

    “Doctor Strange 2” is benefitting as the follow-up film to Sony’s box office behemoth “Spider-Man: No Way Home,” which became a must-see movie event and grossed $1.89 billion worldwide. With Peter Parker’s tantalizing adventures as a precursor, plus Disney’s marketing machine heavily teasing some big surprise cameos, “Doctor Strange” landed in rarified air — even for a Marvel movie. Since the franchise now spans the big and small screen, Disney Plus shows such as “WandaVision” and “What If?” also contributed to the excitement.

    Imax and 3D also added to higher grosses for “Strange,” which cost $200 million to produce, not including hefty marketing fees. According to Disney, 36% of overall box office ticket sales came from premium formats. With $33 million from Imax alone, “Doctor Strange” ranks among the company’s top 10 global opening weekends."
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  17. #42
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    Do not forget Cassy, Elijah, Billy, Tommy, and Loki whom we have also already seen.
    I'd been trying to remember the movie Marvel Rising since yesterday. That's been my main exposure to these characters and I enjoyed it. It's been a long while since I've seen it though.
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  18. #43
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I'd been trying to remember the movie Marvel Rising since yesterday. That's been my main exposure to these characters and I enjoyed it. It's been a long while since I've seen it though.
    We saw Cassy in End Game, Elijah in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Billy and Tommy in WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness, and Kid Loki in Loki.

    We have not seen Iron Lad, but we have seen his variant from the future, He Who Remains, in Loki. Although, I suspect they are telegraphing an Iron Maiden by introducing Morgan Stark in End Game.

    We have not seen Hulkling either, but we did see Mar-Vell in Captain Marvel. But it is remains to be seen whether she is his parent in this continuity.

    We also have not seen Marvel Boy, but he is not a member of the Young Avengers. He is a Kree ally the team meets on their adventures. Nor have we seen Prodigy, but he is a mutant who joins the Young Avengers after leaving the X-Men. So I do not suspect we will see him until after the X-Men are established in the MCU.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post

    It’s Shuma-Gorath. A rose by any other name would still have as many tentacles…
    It's Shuma-Gorath they just can't call him that because Marvel Studios cannot legally use the name “Shuma-Gorath” as it originated and was taken from the 1967 short story The Curse of the Golden Skull by Robert E. Howard.

    Kinda like how Shang-Chi's father in the comics is actually Fu Manchu.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post
    Here is my thought on this:

    Well, WandaVision introduces many of the concepts in Doctor Strange 2:

    What If? also introduces components for this film:

    But it was cool that you were able to follow along. But I think you missed some details that could have added to your enjoyment.
    For better or for worse, Marvel Studios seemed to have assumed everyone would be familiar with the Disney+ shows, as well as the Infinity saga...



    And this is where it gets tricky... we have the Netflix series, Sony series, Fox series, and D+ series all crossing over into the MCU now... the writers have to play a very careful balancing game to be sure.

    Pretty soon, the MCU will introduce the X-Men and Fantastic Four. The superheroes in New York are going to be tripping over each other in the streets, lol...

    I think that this is why (and I'm totally all for it) the latest phase of movies have been "off world"... mystical, multiversal, mythical, cosmic, etc.
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  21. #46
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Of_Destruction View Post
    It's Shuma-Gorath they just can't call him that because Marvel Studios cannot legally use the name “Shuma-Gorath” as it originated and was taken from the 1967 short story The Curse of the Golden Skull by Robert E. Howard.
    Yes, I am aware of the legal reason why Marvel/Disney can't address him as "Shuma-Gorath" publicly. My point is that visually (no pun intended), it is obviously Shuma-Gorath.

    It's like me saying: "Hey, look at this character below appearing in the movie! It's Tasmanian Devil!"




    When everybody knows it's really Honey Badger Man...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Of_Destruction View Post
    Kinda like how Shang-Chi's father in the comics is actually Fu Manchu.
    While that is true, I think they also wanted to avoid the name "Fu-Manchu" because of all the negative racial stereotypes and visuals that name has often been associated with.
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  22. #47
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  23. #48
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    Interesting plot hole in most the post Endgame movies, that I didn't notice until someone pointed it out. But seemingly everyone in the world seems to know every thing that went down in Endgame as if they had scene the movie.

    Don't get me wrong the basic gist of what happened being public knowledge makes sense. But peoples knowledge of the whole thing seems beyond what it should be.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    Interesting plot hole in most the post Endgame movies, that I didn't notice until someone pointed it out. But seemingly everyone in the world seems to know every thing that went down in Endgame as if they had scene the movie.

    Don't get me wrong the basic gist of what happened being public knowledge makes sense. But peoples knowledge of the whole thing seems beyond what it should be.
    In what way?

    I mean... EVERYONE was there at the final battle, and people talk. I'm sure there were lot of interviews and talk shows and stuff.

    Honestly, I was a little surprised that people knew who Dr. Strange was. Typically he kind of works from the shadows and nobody believes in magic... but the general Alien invaded and dusted half the population... yeah, that's probably got 3 lifetime movies at this point.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    In what way?

    I mean... EVERYONE was there at the final battle, and people talk. I'm sure there were lot of interviews and talk shows and stuff.

    Honestly, I was a little surprised that people knew who Dr. Strange was. Typically he kind of works from the shadows and nobody believes in magic... but the general Alien invaded and dusted half the population... yeah, that's probably got 3 lifetime movies at this point.
    I mean stuff like the general public being fully aware the Strange gave Thanos the time stone and let the snappening happen as a part of his plan.

    People seem fully aware that both Carol and Wanda had Thanos on the ropes at deferent points during the final battle. ect.

    People knowing that a big purple alien called Thanos dusted half the universe and the Avengers and some allies undid it and Tony sacrificed himself, makes sense. People having a level of knowledge as if they had watched the movie, not so much.

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