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Thread: Disney+ Obi Wan Kenobi mini series

  1. #101
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    After watching the entire series, I have to say it was very average overall. It had too many problems and too many inconsistencies and too little positive experiences for me to enjoy thoroughly. I liked seeing original Stormtroopers back in action and old fashioned Star Destroyers. But I hated their stock dropping even lower in these series (their shooting gets even worse and Imperial officers not recognizing Tala killing within an impregnable base or recognizing a hobo in a long jacket hiding a 10-year old underneath). I despised that Darth Vader mystique as the supreme Sith and jedi killer takes another hit. He is beaten yet again by Obi-Wan in 1-on-1 battle nd the only people he dominates are townsfolks and underlings. I remember hearing about Vader hunting down and destroying jedis but I have only seen him kill younglings and slice of Mace Windu's hand while distracted. The only "jedi" I have seen him kill onscreen was Count Dooku.

    But I really hate the contradiction this series introduced by having Obi-Wan meet and form a lasting bond with Leia. This should not have occurred. Leia has no knowledge of Obi-Wan in Episode 4 and this series just messes that up completely. I know they did that before (R2-D2 not having his memory wiped and Obi-Wan not recognizing R2) but this was blatant. I could not overlook it and it tainted my experience. This was just a mediocre experience for me.
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  2. #102
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    It's Star Wars by numbers at this point. They'll milk that cow in every way possible, and they know the massive fan base will eat it up despite complaining the whole way.

    It has no soul anymore.
    In all honesty the Star Wars brand is a detriment in 2022 and has been for years (and I would argue was one even before the Disney bought the brand). Let's leave the backlash to the prequels and sequels and weather the fanbase is toxic or not to one side for moment and look at the real heart of the problem.

    Star Wars is a victim of it's own influence and as a result the things that originally made it special aren't special any more. I believe it's called the Senifeld effect.

    So what so you do with it? Try to change it up and you lose what makes Star Wars, Star Wars. Keep things Star Wars and you have a painfully generic story by modern standards.

    While it it might be overdramatic to say there was a moments for Star Wars died for me. Given how I'm more of a casual enjoyer of it than a fan. There is a moment that cemented me as merely a casual enjoyer and someone who really isn't a big fan. That's a couple of years ago when I went to re watch A New Hope and I couldn't finish it, I was just bored by it.

    Not to say there hasn't been Star Wars content, I've enjoyed since then (I still really like Ninth Jedi), but I will always be someone who merely likes Star Wars, rather than be a fan of Star Wars. And to be blunt, I don't think it's truly as special or timeless as some of it's fans think.

  3. #103
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    Have to say I really dug the finale of Obi-Wan. It wasn't perfect but I was satisfied by the final fight and there were some "tug on the heart string" moments that worked fairly well. Really cool cameo at the end I'm glad to see they pulled it off.

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  4. #104
    Heroic sculptor of toys Battle_Brak's Avatar
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    Loved the show, especially the last two episodes. I feel very strongly that people that didn’t like it just hated that the story upended their head canon. But I think it was done right here. I loved the things that challenged my preconceptions. It also retrospectively made the prequels more digestible.
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  5. #105
    Heroic Warrior Bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    Loved the show, especially the last two episodes. I feel very strongly that people that didn’t like it just hated that the story upended their head canon. But I think it was done right here. I loved the things that challenged my preconceptions. It also retrospectively made the prequels more digestible.
    A storyline that's been established and supported by various forms of media for 40+ years isn't "head canon."

  6. #106
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    A storyline that's been established and supported by various forms of media for 40+ years isn't "head canon."
    Disney and their writers scrapped most of all the established storylines.

    I dislike the predictible standard excuse of "it wasn't the story you came up with" to try and dismiss valid criticisms of bad writing.

    Although I will say overall I did enjoy the Obi-Wan series.

  7. #107
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    Interesting fact, even though James earl jones is credited as the voice of darth Vader he didn’t record any new lines. All vaders speech was created using an ai computer programme to perfectly recreate his voice. And he still took home a pay check

  8. #108
    Heroic sculptor of toys Battle_Brak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    A storyline that's been established and supported by various forms of media for 40+ years isn't "head canon."
    Except none of the stuff people have complained about were ever established in official canon sources. People assumed Vader and Obi-wan never met between three and four. People assumed Leia didn’t personally know Obi-wan despite the fact that he’s the one person she reached out to when she needed help in the original film. But there was no solid reason to make either of those assumptions. Nothing that came before contradicted these story decisions. They just weren’t directions fans expected. And nothing here rises to the level of any of the blatant canon breaking decisions George made with the prequels, or even dumb **** that wasn’t necessarily canon breaking but just odd (Yoda knows Chewbacca! Why?)

    Unless you are hung up on the EU continuity which we’ve known since the Disney buyout was thrown out the window. So established lore from Legends novels are essentially head canon now. Since even the old EU had different letter grades to rank how legit it was with only “A canon” ie the movies and clone wars being considered incontrovertible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I dislike the predictible standard excuse of "it wasn't the story you came up with" to try and dismiss valid criticisms of bad writing.
    Haven’t witnessed that. Just the flips side. People thinking that a story doing things they disagree with equals bad writing. Just because a story that’s told doesn’t go the way you’d imagined it doesn’t make it bad storytelling. And the rampant misuse of the term plothole is also a pet peeve. A plot hole is a very specific in issue with the framework of the story. It’s not “something I personally felt was stupid happened” or a minor continuity error, or even things that are genuine stupid and don’t make logical sense. Like in GI Joe the ice in the cobra base sinking defies the laws of physics and is really stupid but it’s not a plothole. In this show how the Grand Inquisitor survived is unexplained but it’s not a plothole because it does not undercut the internal logic of the story. Especially considering this is a universe where characters survive stabbings, amputations, and outright getting cut in half with regularity.
    Last edited by Battle_Brak; Yesterday at 05:53pm.
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  9. #109
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    People assumed Leia didn’t personally know Obi-wan despite the fact that he’s the one person she reached out to when she needed help in the original film.
    It was not her idea to reach out to Obi-Wan Kenobi in Episode 4. She was given the mission to bring Obi-Wan to Alderaan by her father, Bail Organa. Her message made no mention of her knowing Obi-Wan simply describing him as a general serving her father during the Clone Wars. Her tone had no notion of familiarity between her and Obi-Wan. She was simply delivering a message to a stranger she had no prior knowledge of their existence.
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  10. #110
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    I enjoyed the series overall. I'm kinda nit-picky when it comes to timelines so I was hoping for Ben to have a scene toward the end flashing forward a few years showing him looking more aged because wow does he age A LOT between this series and A New Hope, which is just 9 years.
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  11. #111
    Heroic sculptor of toys Battle_Brak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post
    It was not her idea to reach out to Obi-Wan Kenobi in Episode 4. She was given the mission to bring Obi-Wan to Alderaan by her father, Bail Organa. Her message made no mention of her knowing Obi-Wan simply describing him as a general serving her father during the Clone Wars. Her tone had no notion of familiarity between her and Obi-Wan. She was simply delivering a message to a stranger she had no prior knowledge of their existence.
    That’s an assumption. There’s nothing in her message to indicate a lack of familiarity with him. You filled in those blanks with how you envisioned those events to happen. She clearly knows of him and is excited when Luke tells her he’s with Ben Kenobi which could just as easily be viewed as evidence she did know him. The idea that she didn’t know him is based on nothing but speculation and discarded EU lore. Just because a story beat is unexpected doesn’t mean it’s contradictory.

    By the very same logic Darth Vader being Luke Skywalker’s father breaks canon because nothing in the original movie indicates he knows Luke or anything about him. In fact it wasn’t even a storyline conceived until mid way through writing ESB. So it, a key point in the saga, was a total retcon.
    Last edited by Battle_Brak; Yesterday at 08:05pm.
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  12. #112
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    Haven’t witnessed that. Just the flips side. People thinking that a story doing things they disagree with equals bad writing. Just because a story that’s told doesn’t go the way you’d imagined it doesn’t make it bad storytelling. And the rampant misuse of the term plothole is also a pet peeve. A plot hole is a very specific in issue with the framework of the story. It’s not “something I personally felt was stupid happened” or a minor continuity error, or even things that are genuine stupid and don’t make logical sense. Like in GI Joe the ice in the cobra base sinking defies the laws of physics and is really stupid but it’s not a plothole. In this show how the Grand Inquisitor survived is unexplained but it’s not a plothole because it does not undercut the internal logic of the story. Especially considering this is a universe where characters survive stabbings, amputations, and outright getting cut in half with regularity.
    I have seen that excuse used a lot to defend a lot of very valid criticisms of movies and TV shows. When they know you are right and can't prove it wrong it's either the "different than your story" excuse or name calling because you disagree.
    I do agree with you about plotholes being an issues that affects the overall story.
    Even without the ice scene those G.I. Joe movies are awful.

  13. #113
    Heroic Warrior AlexApprobation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    Except none of the stuff people have complained about were ever established in official canon sources. People assumed Vader and Obi-wan never met between three and four. People assumed Leia didn’t personally know Obi-wan despite the fact that he’s the one person she reached out to when she needed help in the original film. But there was no solid reason to make either of those assumptions. Nothing that came before contradicted these story decisions. They just weren’t directions fans expected. And nothing here rises to the level of any of the blatant canon breaking decisions George made with the prequels, or even dumb **** that wasn’t necessarily canon breaking but just odd (Yoda knows Chewbacca! Why?)

    Unless you are hung up on the EU continuity which we’ve known since the Disney buyout was thrown out the window. So established lore from Legends novels are essentially head canon now. Since even the old EU had different letter grades to rank how legit it was with only “A canon” ie the movies and clone wars being considered incontrovertible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Haven’t witnessed that. Just the flips side. People thinking that a story doing things they disagree with equals bad writing. Just because a story that’s told doesn’t go the way you’d imagined it doesn’t make it bad storytelling. And the rampant misuse of the term plothole is also a pet peeve. A plot hole is a very specific in issue with the framework of the story. It’s not “something I personally felt was stupid happened” or a minor continuity error, or even things that are genuine stupid and don’t make logical sense. Like in GI Joe the ice in the cobra base sinking defies the laws of physics and is really stupid but it’s not a plothole. In this show how the Grand Inquisitor survived is unexplained but it’s not a plothole because it does not undercut the internal logic of the story. Especially considering this is a universe where characters survive stabbings, amputations, and outright getting cut in half with regularity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    That’s an assumption. There’s nothing in her message to indicate a lack of familiarity with him. You filled in those blanks with how you envisioned those events to happen. She clearly knows of him and is excited when Luke tells her he’s with Ben Kenobi which could just as easily be viewed as evidence she did know him. The idea that she didn’t know him is based on nothing but speculation and discarded EU lore. Just because a story beat is unexpected doesn’t mean it’s contradictory.

    By the very same logic Darth Vader being Luke Skywalker’s father breaks canon because nothing in the original movie indicates he knows Luke or anything about him. In fact it wasn’t even a storyline conceived until mid way through writing ESB. So it, a key point in the saga, was a total retcon.
    All so well said and explained, nicely done. I felt I needed to quote for emphasis.
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