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Thread: Origins beyond vintage

  1. #1
    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Origins beyond vintage

    Hypothetical question time:

    At some point, Origins will run out of vintage characters to make. At that point, they could of course keep making countless figures based on POP, NA, mini comics, 200x, Filmation, un-produced concepts, cancelled '88 wave, Classics-created characters, etc, much like the approach Classics took, pulling from every aspect of MOTU history, OR...

    ...what if they took a unique direction, as if the vintage line had not ended in 1987, and start making waves of entirely newly created characters unique to Origins? Would you guys be into that? They could easily start with the new ones already shown on box art.

  2. #2
    Bob and weave Bob's Avatar
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    What's the canceled 1988 wave?

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    Heroic Warrior depp76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    What's the canceled 1988 wave?
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...tage-last-wave

  4. #4
    Heroic Warrior
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    I'm all for it. Digging the Skeleton Warriors and that cyclops, so they've already kinda started down that road.

  5. #5
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of the mix and match characters but would love to see figures that are more mini-comic accurate. And I'd buy all the 200X origin re-makes.
    It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.

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    Heroic Warrior d0od's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd love to see them create some new stuff to add to the expanding lore. That purple cyclops thing on some of the Origins packaging is cool, for example. I'd deeply love to see a new vehicle or two too, something designed with Origins in mind, in keeping with the style, etc but totally original.

  7. #7
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    If the designs are cool, I'd go for it. I'd also be in if they incorporate other brands into Origins. Like they are doing with Sun-Man. Like Crystar, Sectaurs, Remco figures, Imperial Dragons...

  8. #8
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Make waves of:

    -Create-a-figure contest winners
    -Industry-insider created figures
    -BraveStarr characters
    -Blackstar characters
    -Son of He-Man characters
    -Dreamworks PoP characters
    -Origins version of "New Eternia" characters
    We need the POWER of the GOOD and the WAY of the MAGIC !!!

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  9. #9
    Heroic Warrior Bear's Avatar
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    I can't speak for others but part of the reason I obsess so much over the vintage is that it's the only part of MOTU that truly, fully feels MOTU. A big part of the franchise feels like a standard fantasy or sci-fi characters. No goofy names, memorable gimmicks, colorful designs...just guys like Andra, Count Marzo, or Demos. While there are individual characters that captured the spirit (obvious example, Optikk) it's hard to find a consistent collection of new characters that fit in.

    But. That doesn't mean it's not worth trying. I'm sure if we run out of vintage, Origins will keep releasing variants and trying existing characters but this is worth trying. Something like those 6 new characters for Classics only without the special creator gimmick. I think the closest Classics came to making a brand new "vintage" character was Fang-Or.

    Skeleton warriors and Cyclops are an interesting first step, although, one is an army builder and the other feels like a bipedal Mantisaur. I look forward to them trying actual characters. Maybe that frog guy?

    Of course, there is the question of how many they will release new characters. Skeletons or Dupli-Cat are one thing but will they put a new character in the retail wave? Will they announce a few new guys, maybe one hero and three villains for each faction, and then spread them over Wave or two? Will they have any gimmicks? Making in practice new 7th wave of vintage is a daring idea but also an expensive one. I'd expect Mattel to be cautious with it.

    And since everyone is listing what they want: vintage, Powers of Grayskull and '88 Wave. Then we can wrap this up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    What's the canceled 1988 wave?
    When vintage line was dying there was idea to make Wave with no new parts, just reuses. It never came through but there was art showing off 6 characters. Of them only one had official name and colors - Strobo who showed up in comic book - but Classics finally decided to release them.

    Heroes:

    Strobo - Sy-Klone but with Zodac head, cape and mirror instead of radar on chest.

    Plasmar - black Fisto with He-Ro's armor, Sssqueeze's legs and Rio Blast's arms. He also had Horde crossbow. Crossbow and Rio's hand guns were made from translucent red plastic, idea being that he can make weapons from energy.

    Slamurai - Ninjor in white clothes with human limbs instead of monstrous ones.

    Snake Men:

    Lord Gr'Asp - Sssqueeze's head on regular body with cape and Clawful's big pincer. Also Hiss' shield.

    Terroar - Rattlor's body (including long neck), Trap Jaw's cyborg arm, Whiplash's head, Mosquitor's legs, Snake Man staff.

    Snake Trooper - Trooper painted black with Rattlor's head, King Hiss' legs and Blast-Attak's axe.

  10. #10
    Heroic Warrior d0od's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    When vintage line was dying there was idea to make Wave with no new parts, just reuses. It never came through but there was art showing off 6 characters. Of them only one had official name and colors - Strobo who showed up in comic book - but Classics finally decided to release them.
    I appreciate it probably *is* just me, but I really don't like the cancelled 88 line, and I'd be okay if it stayed unmade in Origins!

    Some of the names and concepts are cool, and I'd be up for a proper creative interpretation of them in Origins (I think that's what Classics did, but that's a bit before my time).

    However, I'd pass if they were as blatant and basic as the original sketches. There's creative part-reuse and there's …the 88 wave. They feel soulless cash grabs not convincing characters.

  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior Bear's Avatar
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    Admittedly, part of the reason I'm voting for them is that they're dirt cheap to make so they have better chances than say, Evilseed or Scorpia. It's like with Fuerza-T, why not make it.

    At least it would be more interesting that more character remakes. I'm not the kind of guy who wants 6 different versions of Trap Jaw in one toy line. Default is enough, move on to the next character.

  12. #12
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0od View Post
    I appreciate it probably *is* just me, but I really don't like the cancelled 88 line, and I'd be okay if it stayed unmade in Origins!
    I don't care for them either outside of maybe Slamurai. For me it's that when I look at them all I see is the original characters parts. I can't see Zodac's head and not see Zodac
    It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.

  13. #13
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I don't care for them either outside of maybe Slamurai. For me it's that when I look at them all I see is the original characters parts. I can't see Zodac's head and not see Zodac
    This right here.
    I'm not against parts reuse in most cases, but one thing I am against is head reuse. The head sculpt for a lot of guys is the only unique aspect to their look. It's one thing that I've kind of always hated about the original Moss Man and Stinkor.
    The entire "lost wave" is not something I'd ever buy myself unless they got unique heads in some reboot, the way 200x really brought me around on Moss Man and Stinkor

  14. #14
    Heroic Warrior Bear's Avatar
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    Now there is a mental exercise - how would they heads like if they were updated. Admittedly designing snake man head is a little tricky because there is only so many ways to design a snake. That's why we have 2 humanoid snakes and others that look like frog or dinosaur.

  15. #15
    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0od View Post
    Some of the names and concepts are cool, and I'd be up for a proper creative interpretation of them in Origins (I think that's what Classics did, but that's a bit before my time).
    Well several of them have just recently shown up on Origins card art (Camo Khan's), and they look exactly like their Classics counterparts, so they're not going to be "creatively re-interpreted" if they get released in Origins, which I fully support. It would be inconsistent, strange, and confusing if they randomly decided to give these guys different looks than what's already been established.

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    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylamug View Post
    This right here.
    I'm not against parts reuse in most cases, but one thing I am against is head reuse. The head sculpt for a lot of guys is the only unique aspect to their look. It's one thing that I've kind of always hated about the original Moss Man and Stinkor.
    The entire "lost wave" is not something I'd ever buy myself unless they got unique heads in some reboot, the way 200x really brought me around on Moss Man and Stinkor
    How do you feel about Zodac and Zodak being two characters who coexist with the same helmet? Unless you won't accept that, it seems unfair to say there can be two Cosmic Enforcers with a uniform helmet but not three. Strobo at least has Jetsons rings on his skimpy outfit and a mirror growing out of his flesh to make him more interesting than Zodak.
    And Slamurai is wearing a mask that covers everything but his eyes.
    I don't think it's fair to lump them with Second Fisto, Second Whiplash and Second Sssqueeze.

  17. #17
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCX-Eternia View Post
    How do you feel about Zodac and Zodak being two characters who coexist with the same helmet? Unless you won't accept that, it seems unfair to say there can be two Cosmic Enforcers with a uniform helmet but not three.
    When it came to the Classics line I picked the one I liked best and he's "Zodac". Well, technically he's Zodak. I didn't buy the other

    I agree on Slamurai though. He's wearing a costume, just like Ninjor. They're like a Ying Yang to each other. That works for me.
    It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.

  18. #18
    Heroic Warrior
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    TBH I would much prefer them to get to the more unique characters of 200x and certain army-builders first. I really need Tuvar and Baddrha in action figure form as well as more Snakemen troopers.

  19. #19
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCX-Eternia View Post
    How do you feel about Zodac and Zodak being two characters who coexist with the same helmet? Unless you won't accept that, it seems unfair to say there can be two Cosmic Enforcers with a uniform helmet but not three. Strobo at least has Jetsons rings on his skimpy outfit and a mirror growing out of his flesh to make him more interesting than Zodak.
    And Slamurai is wearing a mask that covers everything but his eyes.
    I don't think it's fair to lump them with Second Fisto, Second Whiplash and Second Sssqueeze.

    With regards to Zodac/Zodak....I've honestly never considered them separate characters, I always just saw Zodak as 200x Zodac. Yeah, I know....Classics lore was a thing, but that was something I was never around for and only found out they were being treated as separate characters years later. Can't say I have a strong opinion, that being the case, anymore than I have an issue with Origins Evil-lyn and Origins 200x Evil-lyn sharing a head.

    That's probably a cop out answer since I'm sure those two being separate characters will probably surface again and I'll have to face it eventually

  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior ToyCulture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    start making waves of entirely newly created characters unique to Origins?
    I would probably skip "entirely new". I suspect "entirely new" characters would be mostly female warriors of various ethnicities and non-binary gender anyway. Maybe they could squeeze a Netflix series out of them too.

  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    Ironically, I'm waiting for "zodak " in origins, he's One of my top 5 all time favorite characters, I always wanted to see More of him in 200x . In fact , everything happening with sun man now , I wanted for zodak ( I kinda saw him as a spiritual batman to he man's superman in 200x)I Just really Love the cosmic enforcers as a separate faction, add tekno into them if we get fuerza t

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

  22. #22
    Heroic Warrior Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyCulture View Post
    I would probably skip "entirely new". I suspect "entirely new" characters would be mostly female warriors of various ethnicities and non-binary gender anyway. Maybe they could squeeze a Netflix series out of them too.
    Well, that is awfully cynical of you.

    Don't get me wrong, new characters need to feel like good proper vintage toys. I wouldn't mind Evil-Lyn or Clamp Champ getting some company but if you just showed me Rulers of the Sun and told me this is a new generation of vintage motu, I would reject them out of hand. That Classics six with Fearless Photog and Sir Laser-Lot made for better motu follow-up.

  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior Cosmic's Avatar
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    Oh man, didnt know anything about this wave!
    So *thats* where those weird Classics exclusives come from lol

    Im actually a fan of Strobo! Love the Classics figure.
    And its so cool to see more Eroll McCarthy illos!

    Its a weird kind of wave but theres definitely something in there. Id definitely take an Origins Strobo, maybe Phasmar, and maybe more.

    Otherwise, I think Id like them to make figures based on the various other MOTU incarnations, with a couple new creations thrown in!

  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior Smitty.81's Avatar
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    Revisit early wave of Origins figures with some minor tweaks such as, but not limited to

    1. red wing Stratos
    2. bone colored face for Skeletor
    3. "H" logo He-Man
    4. She-Ra with MOTWWEU Chyna's head dress
    5. Try-Klops with a new set of "eye" that are different shapes
    6. shaven Man-at-Arms or brown mustache
    7. Filmation colors Trap-Jaw
    8. gold highlights on Teela's armor
    9. Filmation Hordak
    10. toy colors Orko
    11. Horde Skeletor
    12. "lava" Skeleton Warrior
    My photocomic fanfic
    Last update 9/29/2022

  25. #25
    Widget KnightOfGrayskull's Avatar
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    Not sure how this fandom expects Origins to continue long enough to 'finish the vintage line' without new characters that appeal more to kids. There's a reason vintage MOTU ended when it did, it lost the attention of kids and kept pumping the shelves with variants of He-man and Skeletor. 200X did the same. To some degree, Classics even started going that way with the Filmation subline redoing so much of the main cast (Even though that wasn't retail, so applies less here).

    I was super excited when they announced Snake-Armor He-man, don't get me wrong I don't hate variants, but I also gladly welcome the Rulers of the Sun, the Terroar/Plasmar/Gr'Asp wave, Vykron, all of it. Kids who weren't around in the 80s don't care about 'finishing the vintage line first', or getting minicomic variants with a slightly greener Trap-Jaw. Truthfully, kids are all that matters. And kids get more excited when their toys look like them. To dismiss new figures, even if the entire point is to be more diverse, is very narrow-minded.

    There's also a happy medium in there somewhere. If you're so invested in 'vintage' characters only, great, let's ask for Hawke/Delora/Birdwoman, or Ileena, or what about Melaktha? That's just some of Filmation's more 'diverse' crew. 200X has Dekker and Illumina, two fan favorites despite Illumina appearing once ina single-page ad. There's so much room to inject new life into the line without sacrificing the 'identity' of MOTU (which if you've ever read about Lou Sheimer's approach to Filmation, was very focused on being inclusive).

    I'm not trying to point fingers at any one person in this thread, I'm just disappointed in the general sentiment of the more vocal members of the 'vintage only' crowd. Like can you imagine if Marvel stopped making new heroes in the 70's? Comic sales would be even lower than they are now and I can almost guarantee the MCU wouldn't be raking in billions on the regular. MOTU needs to evolve, move forward, and earn new fans. If Origins never moves beyond vintage and variants of vintage, it's gonna be another 20 years before we get more MOTU. Nobody wants that.

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