DCEU Complete REBOOT?

[carlo]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...212909256.html


WW3 cancelled? MOS 2 cancelled?

Black Adam... GO AWAY

Aqua Man... i say cancel that too, i dont want to see jason mamoa anymore.

whatever.. CANCEL EVERYTHING and reboot

DCEU has been and is a complete mess

[Mikey]

For me, the DCEU has been absolutely wonderful and I definitely want more!

[dan1980]

I stated in another post that I would prefer they just scrap the DCU in general. And concentrate on making individual movies and their sequels.
In that post I said I really enjoyed the Robert Pattinson Batman movie, which I was surprised at because I don’t really rate him as an actor in general. But I thoroughly enjoyed the story and the tone of the movie. I liked that this Batman doesn’t kill but he will beat you into a coma and leave you barely breathing, I liked that it felt like a detective movie in the vein of seven and a complete departure from the comic book movie genre.
At the moment I’d rather see more of pattinsons batman for the time being.
My fave is still Tim Burton’s Michael Keaton’s version though

I always feel like I don’t really know where the DCU is heading, because nothing connects except the characters.
Like with MCU it was all connected by the infinity stones so it made sense where as now currently I don’t feel it’s felt as connected which is why people have been confused by their choice. And I know the multiverse is the thing atm and Kang coming into play but it hasn’t been as intrinsically woven into all the properties like in the infinity saga.
And I think for me that’s why the whole DCU has felt like phase four of the MCU having no real defining arch running through it

[MossMan710179]

They shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. DC/Warner... who ever, needs to focus on better stories and not so much on making profit (yes they need that to survive, or else it would be bad business) that'll come if the film is great (hopefully).

The DCEU both suffered and flourished by having Snyder as the architect, his vision may not have been for everyone, but the films he had his hands in felt connected, it shows with the two versions of Justice League. The theatrical JL film seems like it belongs in the same universe as all the other DC films that Snyder didn't direct. They all come off as Marvel clones... but the clone of a clone of a clone (think of the doofus version of Michael Keaton from Multiplicity).

On the same hand, we've had over 20 years of non-stop super hero films. Either we need a break from them and this wasn't DCs time, or we need more care put into the DCEU...

[Fendi]

On the same hand, we've had over 20 years of non-stop super hero films. Either we need a break from them and this wasn't DCs time, or we need more care put into the DCEU...

Agreed. I'll let DC to make a move when the opportunity is right. especially getting out of pressure from the Marvel Mania craze atm.

[Rikki Roxx]

From the beginning I was always very on board with the idea of deliberately trying to NOT copy Marvel's formula and instead try and be entirely different. I mean, they've always had drastically different approaches to presenting super-heroes anyway, so it just made sense that the DC movies would zig where the Marvel movies zagged, as well.

For one thing, DC was forever damned by being second to market with their "shared universe" of films. I've always sort of suspected that the market can't truly sustain two big super-hero movie franchise "universes" at the same time, it's just far too much to absorb for most people and thus whoever hit the market first would have an ingrained edge, not just financially but also in the court of public opinion, and that is more or less how it played out.

But to be second to market AND also be a blatant copycat? Well, that would be even worse, to my thinking. That's why whenever people insist that "ALL they have to do is do Exactly Like Marvel Does!" I sort of groan and roll my eyes. There really is no promise that it would "fix" or help anything, and as we've seen and as you so astutely pointed out, MossMan, the DC movies that try the hardest to be "MCU Clones" are among the worst of their output, and also have failed to draw any money. So obviously "just do it like Those Other Guys do it" isn't some kind of magic formula. It's not enough to just copy your neighbor's work and get an A+, people who are savvy see right through that.

So yeah, I know I'm supposedly in the minority but I was a huge fan of the DCEU initially having its own identity and approach to things, and was sad they rather quickly gave up on that idea. I know the initial output was "divisive" but the numbers simply don't lie: The more and more the DCEU films blatantly try and copy the MCU formula, the more people just shrug it off. Black Adam wasn't a bad example of "DC making an MCU movie", in fact it's probably the closest thing to an MCU movie except maybe Shazam!, but in neither case did brighter colors, a lighter tone, more jokes or a generally lighthearted atmosphere magically generate box office revenue, despite many people on the internet insisting for years that it automatically would. So clearly "Just do it like Marvel" isn't a winning strategy for them, either.

WB being so hyper-reactionary all the time sure doesn't help. I've always had a feeling that if left alone, the DCEU would have found its audience in time once people saw where the through-line story was heading; the fact that most people liked Snyder's JL and felt like it explained/redeemed some of the more divisive things from earlier movies sort of reinforces that. Maybe that audience wouldn't ever have been as large as that of the MCU, but more people come around on those early DCEU movies every day and regardless of all else, they were profitable movies. But regardless of the approach, or which type of fan you hope to attract, you can't instill ongoing confidence among ANY type of fan when your only consistent strategy is "Cancel a bunch of stuff and threaten massive reboots every time something doesn't hit an arbitrary metric."

I mean, that's why I personally just wash my hands of it. I have no emotional investment anymore. 99% of the DC movies they announce never happen, anyway. Because when their "serious" movies under-perform, they pivot to going full ga-ga; then when the "just a fun romp" ones under-perform, they stunt-cast Pattinson as Batman and make a movie that's like "What if it were Nolan's Batman, but cheaper-looking and a lot less fun?" ALL they ever do is "counter-program" based on however the last movie did, or whatever the critics in EW said, and that's just no way to do it. There's no consistency that way. It's why they're forever a day late and a dollar short.

I mean, as a DC fan since birth, I'd like to see them succeed. But as someone who's seen WB's track record over many years, in my heart I know we've already seen the best they can possibly do and I don't actually expect them to ever get out of their own way with regard to this franchise. They are way too bipolar, reactionary, and insecure to ever get it to work. If you don't even give the roots time to take hold before you start ripping them out of the ground and replacing them with something else, you're simply never gonna get anything to blossom.

[felgekarp]

Gunn’s been in this position for about 5 minutes, I’m more than happy to wait to hear what he’s got planned, what his roadmap is, before I start ******** all over the DC stuff.

[Grayskull Guardsman]

If they get rid of Cavil, Gadot, and Mamoa, then Gunn needs to toss his Suicide Squad/Peacemaker folks, too. Picking and choosing pieces would be weird.

And while I enjoyed The Batman the first time, I thought it was a bit long and slow the second time through. Not great rewatchability. I also don't think Battinson would be a great Batman in a DC Universe setting standing next to a Superman and a Wonder Woman.

I think they need to focus on the story and quality of what they release. I loved Wonder Woman 1 and Gal, and was super excited for WW84, but man, that movie was a stinker. Losing Patty Jenkins' WW3 is a good thing. I would give Gal another shot in another WW role.

Gunn's comments about focusing on more obscure characters is worrisome, too. I am a hardcore DC fan, but I have trouble getting excited about Shazam, Black Adam, Blue Beetle, Peacemaker, etc stuff. They need to use the big three more, and not relegate them to five second cameos. Poor Batfleck never even got his own movie... that would be fun. A whole movie of stuff like that BvS warehouse fight scene. Yes, please! Instead, here is a movie about Harley Quinn and a bunch of Gotham City D-listers. How about a Batman movie with Joker and Harley, and Deathstroke and other assorted rogues sprinkled in. In all the DCEU, I don't think Harley has ever actually spoken to Batman. And the only Joker verbal interaction was that brief alternate future scene in the JL: Snyder Cut. They need to use their good toys! And mix in new characters with them.

My vote would be to give the current actors another shot in carefully crafted, well-written projects. Keep Cavil, Gadot, Affleck, Mamoa, and see if under James Gunn's watch they can churn out some winners.

[Dcr4]

Guess it isn't just me. Enjoyed the Batman quite a bit the first time around but not as much on the 2nd viewing. Not sure why that is..

[Rikki Roxx]

I had very little interest in The Batman for multiple reasons. I ended up seeing about 5 minutes of it, watched the deleted "Joker" scene on YouTube, and decided I've had my fill of that particular Batman "universe".

It's perfectly fine if other people like it but to be completely blunt and sincerely honest, I absolutely hated every second of what I saw. For the record it was the "Flying Squirrel" scene, I walked past as that was about to happen and saw a bit of what was after. Even my friends who liked the movie admitted that that was "the worst part", so it's my bad luck that's what I walked in on I guess, but still.

Just not for me. If I want to watch "Hyper-Realistic, No Comic Book Stuff At All" Batman - and sometimes I do - then I'd rather just watch Nolan's movies again. What I saw of The Batman honestly looked like a film student trying very hard to recreate Nolan's aesthetic but falling way short. That was my impression based on the trailers and the few minutes of the movie itself. I can't say I'll never watch it, but I'd have to be pretty bored. And I agree that the Batman in that movie would be a terrible fit for a shared universe version of Batman. I can almost see how it "works" in its own corner but I definitely wouldn't want to see him rubbing shoulders with Superman and Wonder Woman.

[He-Metayer]

Both James Gunn and Henry Cavill have announced that Cavill will not play Superman in the upcoming DCEU movies. Sounds like they are going with a younger Superman and his early life in Metropolis.

[Rikki Roxx]

Golly, WB ****ting in their own mouth; must be one of those days that ends in Y.

I wonder if WB is going to pay him any kind of severance, since he left The Witcher under what turned out to be false pretense (WB promising him another Superman gig). If not, he may be able to sue them.

Anyways, I called it. Full universe reboot with entirely new cast. Flash and Aquaman 2 get "Dark Phoenix'ed" and shoved out to recoup whatever they can despite being total abandonware.

I'm sure Gunn's typical flavor of hokey-jokey horse **** will be the magic bullet DC's been looking for. Ha. Ha ha ha ha.

**** WB. Garbage company no matter who's running it.

[dan1980]

Variety is reporting that Gunn is hoping to bring Pattisons Batman into the new DCU. I know some people will be put off by that, but I can see how it could be good. A darker more real world approach to the universe would be the polar opposite of its rival. Which could be a good thing. I’m not sure how a superman or wonder woman would work in that tone of movie but it would certainly be interesting to see.

[He-Metayer]

Variety is reporting that Gunn is hoping to bring Pattisons Batman into the new DCU. I know some people will be put off by that, but I can see how it could be good. A darker more real world approach to the universe would be the polar opposite of its rival. Which could be a good thing. I’m not sure how a superman or wonder woman would work in that tone of movie but it would certainly be interesting to see.

Gunn did come out and say that this is not true, so Pattison's Batman will remain in a separate universe

[Uki]

Gunn himself debunked the Battinson rumor.

I am sad to see Cavill go, and my kiddo is really upset about it. Honestly, I sincerely hope they aren't picking and choosing what fits into the new DCU. I would rather they throw the babies out with the bathwater and start fresh in a whole new tub instead of creating some Frankenstein hodge-podge of Harley Quinn, Peacemaker, and whatever else they hold precious from before while nixing greats like Henry.

I guess we'll see.

[zodak74]

Henry Cavill as Batman in a separate continuity series of Batman films would be my preference if they plan on offering him more work in a different role.

[Wakko]

I am sad to see Cavill go, and my kiddo is really upset about it. Honestly, I sincerely hope they aren't picking and choosing what fits into the new DCU. I would rather they throw the babies out with the bathwater and start fresh in a whole new tub instead of creating some Frankenstein hodge-podge of Harley Quinn, Peacemaker, and whatever else they hold precious from before while nixing greats like Henry.

I agree completely. For awhile there I was onboard with DC attempting some kind of reset where they tossed what didn't work but kept what did, with "what did" including keeping Cavill, Gadot, and Mamoa (and maybe Robbie as well). But if Cavill's out, I'd rather they just toss everything and start fresh. I'm not interested in seeing Gadot's Wonder Woman or Mamoa's Aquaman in a Justice League with a recast Superman.

Such a shame, because probably the #1 thing the DCCU got right was casting. Writing and directing, nope, but casting yes, with a few exceptions. (I was personally never sold on Affleck's Batman.)

I have hope that Gunn will do a good job overall, but I really hope that, if the universe is getting a complete reboot, he doesn't play favorites and try to hold on to his Suicide Squad actors. They all need to go too.

[dan1980]

Gunn did come out and say that this is not true, so Pattison's Batman will remain in a separate universe

Ah ok thanks for the update. I guess we can only go on the info that we come across at the time.

Fingers marvel will pick cavill up for something like captain Britain

[Bonehead]

I'll repeat what I said in the Black Adam thread, the best thing to do is a full reboot and get rid of all the baggage of the old DCU. I fear though this info will kill any chance any of the upcoming films have of doing well.

In the long run this could work to WB's favor. They'll be starting a whole new universe of films based on their iconic characters while Marvel will be putting out films with mostly D-Listers and wannabes(Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Black Panther, Hawkeye, Black Widow, did I miss anybody?). The MCU is already showing signs of a downturn with the lackluster box offices and quality of Phase 4. Iger, I honestly hope, can fix it.

[BCI Guy]

I wonder if WB is going to pay him any kind of severance, since he left The Witcher under what turned out to be false pretense (WB promising him another Superman gig). If not, he may be able to sue them.

I thought he left because he didn't agree with the direction the series was taking (ie: too far removed from his beloved source material)

[Ornclown]

I thought he left because he didn't agree with the direction the series was taking (ie: too far removed from his beloved source material)

Yes, all indications point to this as the main reason for Cavill's departure. After season 2, he was upset with how far the Netflix series was diverging from the source material.

As a huge Witcher fan, I completely agree with him... and I can see this as being motivation to give up his role as Geralt.

[Megalodon]

They'll be starting a whole new universe of films based on their iconic characters while Marvel will be putting out films with mostly D-Listers and wannabes(Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Black Panther, Hawkeye, Black Widow, did I miss anybody?). The MCU is already showing signs of a downturn with the lackluster box offices and quality of Phase 4. Iger, I honestly hope, can fix it.

Spoken like someone who has no idea...

Those D Listers proved alot of people wrong...

When will the Marvel Hate stop already picking sides is getting old...

I love how Marvel is SO bad but DC has had "Ehh they're not so good"

Mismanagement ******* off Actors rushing things out and your NEW Discovery CEO "Can't wait for the Flash Movie because he's excited for it"

WOW! totally forgetting that Miller has a criminal record at last checked is still on the run...

But Marvel is horrible because of their "lackluster" phase 4 (But Phase 1-3) was forgotten?

See this is why I can't stand some DC fans because an actor could murder someone but they will still back them and want them to continue....

Give me a break....


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Henry Cavill as Batman in a separate continuity series of Batman films would be my preference if they plan on offering him more work in a different role.

Hyperion or Captain Britain

[LionMom]

I am so over this entire genre at this point. DC, Marvel, Star Trek, Star Wars, LOTR, all of it. If multi gazillion dollar movie budgets, years and years of time, all the best talent in front of and behind the screen still can't produce any but a few worthwhile results, what can? All these corporatized IP and franchises might just need to fail for the whole entertainment industry to raise the bar a little on quality. I mean I see these things, and others, and I'm just flabbergasted that so much of it could be so bad. Its ridiculous.

[zodak74]

Spoken like someone who has no idea...

Those D Listers proved alot of people wrong...

When will the Marvel Hate stop already picking sides is getting old...

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Hyperion or Captain Britain

Sure, but after Batman

[Megalodon]

Sure, but after Batman

After what they put him thru I doubt he would go back he should just move on...